Author Topic: Interesting Observation wlp 530 vs 500  (Read 9544 times)

Offline narvin

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Re: Interesting Observation wlp 530 vs 500
« Reply #30 on: October 21, 2011, 07:33:50 AM »
In my mind, Coke is more of a solution than a colloidal suspension whereas wort is more of a colloidal suspension and a freshly stirred/whirlpooled sample may have more "dissolved" solids that quickly settle out within minutes and yield a different SG reading.

I'm not doubting that it happens either, and I "thought" I saw it happen once (though it may have been user error with my refractometer).  But I don't see why the sugars in wort aren't in solution after an hour of boiling, since the amount is well below the solubility limit.  The other solids are in suspension, which means that they shouldn't even affect a gravity reading unless your hydrometer is literally sitting on a pile of trub in the bottom of the cylinder.
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Offline richardt

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Re: Interesting Observation wlp 530 vs 500
« Reply #31 on: October 21, 2011, 08:12:00 AM »
I was thinking more along the lines of the many different types of sugars found in wort (versus Coke) as well as the many different types of proteins found in wort (versus Coke) and the possible role they may play in sampling for refractometer and/or hydrometer readings.

Offline denny

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Re: Interesting Observation wlp 530 vs 500
« Reply #32 on: October 21, 2011, 09:18:17 AM »

I don't understand this, although I believe that both of you guys have observed it.  But it just doesn't make sense to me.  Let's say you let a bottle of Coke sit.  Does it stratify, too?

Denny check this Mr. Wizard Article out that I found last night.  It's the second question that deals with stratification.

http://www.byo.com/stories/wizard/article/section/121-mr-wizard/861-hose-longevity-a-wort-sampling-mr-wizard

Thanks.  Maybe I missed it but I didn't see it address stratification.
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Offline narvin

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Re: Interesting Observation wlp 530 vs 500
« Reply #33 on: October 21, 2011, 10:15:21 AM »

I don't understand this, although I believe that both of you guys have observed it.  But it just doesn't make sense to me.  Let's say you let a bottle of Coke sit.  Does it stratify, too?

Denny check this Mr. Wizard Article out that I found last night.  It's the second question that deals with stratification.

http://www.byo.com/stories/wizard/article/section/121-mr-wizard/861-hose-longevity-a-wort-sampling-mr-wizard

Thanks.  Maybe I missed it but I didn't see it address stratification.

As far as I can tell, he's saying that AG wort without top-up water or yeast starter added shouldn't experience any stratification.  He does say that temperature stratification is possible, so you need to check the temperature of your samples and correct appropriately.
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Offline denny

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Re: Interesting Observation wlp 530 vs 500
« Reply #34 on: October 21, 2011, 10:51:37 AM »
As far as I can tell, he's saying that AG wort without top-up water or yeast starter added shouldn't experience any stratification.  He does say that temperature stratification is possible, so you need to check the temperature of your samples and correct appropriately.

Yeah, that's the way I read it, too.  I thought that James was saying that kettle sugar stratification was addressed.
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Offline James Lorden

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Re: Interesting Observation wlp 530 vs 500
« Reply #35 on: October 21, 2011, 11:13:48 AM »
You are right Denny.  I'm pulling both sides of the rope here.  Wort stratification is something that doesn't make a lot of sense to me and the Mr. Wizard article seems to support your point.  I felt like I observed wort stratification early in my switch to 10 gallons and for that reason along with a few others implemented a system of running off into two carboys simultaneously.  That became part of my method and I haven't really thought about it for a long time.

One thought as I write this... temperature affects a liquids ability to hold sugar.  Is it possible that if there is temperature stratification that this could lead to sugar stratification because it's easier for the top of the kettle that is hotter to hold more sugar then for the bottom colder portion?  Therefore there would be no wort stratification at an equilabrium temp?

Think about ice-t, I can usually get all of the sugar into solution if I stir long enough but it's more work then hot-t.  Perhaps if there is a limited amount of sugar in a pot the hotter wort will hold onto more of it then the colder?

If that were the case then I think the method of chilling could play a role... immersion chillers would lead to more stratification then plates and counterflows that go straight into the fermenter.

***Just brainstorming here - NONE OF THIS IS FACT ;D

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Offline denny

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Re: Interesting Observation wlp 530 vs 500
« Reply #36 on: October 21, 2011, 11:23:57 AM »
James, I can't say that your temp theory is wrong, but it does seem like there would have to be quite a gradient in temp to make a measurable difference.  Maybe the reason I don't see it is that I use recirculating chilling, so temp and sugar is pretty well distributed throughout the kettle. 
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Offline morticaixavier

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Re: Interesting Observation wlp 530 vs 500
« Reply #37 on: October 21, 2011, 11:44:40 AM »
Additionally, in the ice tea example if you disolve the sugar while the tea is hot and then chill it you don't see stratification as it cools. Or at least you don't see sugar coming back out of solution do to cooling.
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Offline James Lorden

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Re: Interesting Observation wlp 530 vs 500
« Reply #38 on: October 21, 2011, 12:40:07 PM »
That's a good point - anyone that has ever made simple syrup can attest to that at much higher concentrations.
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