Author Topic: a black ipa... how does this look?  (Read 5249 times)

Offline deepsouth

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a black ipa... how does this look?
« on: January 14, 2010, 11:06:30 AM »
also, this yeast says to ferment between 60-72...  would i be ok on the lower end of this?



11 lb. maris otter
1 lb. crystal 60
.5 lb de-bittered black
.5 lb flaked oats

1 oz amarillo @ 60
1 oz simcoe @ 60
.5 oz amarillo @ 20
.5 oz simcoe @ 20
.5 oz amarillo @ 0
.5 oz simcoe @ 0

wyeast london ale 1028 (w/ starter)

i'll probably dry hop it with an ounce of something, but i'm not sure what.



i'll be brewing an abyss-ish clone to pitch on the yeast cake after i rack this one.


thanks for looking.
Hoppy Homebrewers of South Mississippi (est. 2009)

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bottled:     white house honey ale

Offline dean

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Re: a black ipa... how does this look?
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2010, 11:18:45 AM »
Since you're using debittered black malt it will probably be okay but you don't need that much of it.  I wouldn't use as much crystal (maybe 1/2 to 3/4 pound) and I wouldn't use the flaked oats.  But since its a black IPA it really doesn't need to meet a standard for IPA's anyway does it?  jmo.

Offline majorvices

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Re: a black ipa... how does this look?
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2010, 11:35:22 AM »
I would also cut the crystal in half. Not sure if the oats will do much, but might lend some mouthfeel... On the topic of Black IPAs, does anyone have a recipe for a Pale Stout?  ;) j/k
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Offline mikeypedersen

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Re: a black ipa... how does this look?
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2010, 11:38:55 AM »
I would also cut the crystal in half. Not sure if the oats will do much, but might lend some mouthfeel... On the topic of Black IPAs, does anyone have a recipe for a Pale Stout?  ;) j/k
I've got a great recipe for an Imperial Mild.  ;D  Also j/k

Offline blatz

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Re: a black ipa... how does this look?
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2010, 11:47:07 AM »
the hop schedule looks awfully weak in the hop flavor dept.  this is supposed to be an IPA after all...

I like the oats idea, and could take it or leave it on the xtal - don't really have a strong opinion either way.

also, I've used 1028 low before and it handles the low temp pretty well (62-4 is where i've placed it), though I would let it ramp up in temp at the end to ensure full attenuation.
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Offline dean

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Re: a black ipa... how does this look?
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2010, 11:54:34 AM »
On the topic of Black IPAs, does anyone have a recipe for a Pale Stout?  ;) j/k

I think thats probably a very close description really, maybe a pale imperial stout?  I've done it on accident using roasted barley and its too much roasted flavor for an IPA imo.  I'll never do it again... at least I hope I don't.   :D

Offline deepsouth

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Re: a black ipa... how does this look?
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2010, 12:20:50 PM »
just talked to my buddy who also brews.....

i'm definitely dropping the de-bittered crystal down to .25 lb. and i 'm going to use 1 oz of black patent.


as far as the hop schedule goes....  it only looks like about 70 IBU...  ok for an ipa (for my taste) but i probably will add a third hop in at 60 and dry hop with the same one....  citra maybe????
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bottled:     white house honey ale

Offline blatz

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Re: a black ipa... how does this look?
« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2010, 12:32:01 PM »
as far as the hop schedule goes....  it only looks like about 70 IBU...  ok for an ipa (for my taste) but i probably will add a third hop in at 60 and dry hop with the same one....  citra maybe????

The way it is now, your beer just looks bitter, but doesn't say "IPA" to me.

IBUs and hop flavor and aroma are different.  I was talking about the fact that you only have 1oz after the 60min addition - very,very weak.  I generally have at least 8oz of hops during the last 20min of the boil (though I do double the size batches as you do).  

I would double the 20 minute addition, do the same addition at 10 or 5 min, double or maybe triple the flameout addition.  AND dryhop it.

Lower your 60min additions to get to whatever the IBU target you want after accounting for the late hops.

The happiest people don’t necessarily have the best of everything; they just make the best of everything they have.

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Offline deepsouth

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Re: a black ipa... how does this look?
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2010, 01:07:28 PM »
as far as the hop schedule goes....  it only looks like about 70 IBU...  ok for an ipa (for my taste) but i probably will add a third hop in at 60 and dry hop with the same one....  citra maybe????

The way it is now, your beer just looks bitter, but doesn't say "IPA" to me.

IBUs and hop flavor and aroma are different.  I was talking about the fact that you only have 1oz after the 60min addition - very,very weak.  I generally have at least 8oz of hops during the last 20min of the boil (though I do double the size batches as you do). 

I would double the 20 minute addition, do the same addition at 10 or 5 min, double or maybe triple the flameout addition.  AND dryhop it.

Lower your 60min additions to get to whatever the IBU target you want after accounting for the late hops.




that's probably not a bad idea.  i've been told i was always heavy handed on the hops, so hearing that this is light on them surprises me, but i'm not opposed to throwing a bunch more in.
Hoppy Homebrewers of South Mississippi (est. 2009)

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bottled:     white house honey ale

Offline blatz

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Re: a black ipa... how does this look?
« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2010, 01:19:21 PM »
i've been told i was always heavy handed on the hops,

exactly my point  ;) - you're heavy handed on the bitterness part of it (which may be what people are perceiving) - which, with this recipe you certainly are!  You have more bittering hop in for a 5gal batch than I do for my 12gal IPAs, even though mine are around 65-70ibus too!  

less bittering hop (relative to what you have) and more late hops yields a much better IPA, IMO.
The happiest people don’t necessarily have the best of everything; they just make the best of everything they have.

BJCP National: F0281

Offline deepsouth

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Re: a black ipa... how does this look?
« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2010, 01:39:28 PM »
i've been told i was always heavy handed on the hops,

exactly my point  ;) - you're heavy handed on the bitterness part of it (which may be what people are perceiving) - which, with this recipe you certainly are!  You have more bittering hop in for a 5gal batch than I do for my 12gal IPAs, even though mine are around 65-70ibus too! 

less bittering hop (relative to what you have) and more late hops yields a much better IPA, IMO.


thanks!  i'll sort out that tonight.  i wanted to use more than two different hop varieties anyway.  i guess i'll go crazy on the late additons. 

i'll update this later tonight with some more hops and additions and times.
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bottled:     white house honey ale

Offline majorvices

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Re: a black ipa... how does this look?
« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2010, 01:56:54 PM »
Agree with blatz on the bitterness - most of my American IPAs get the majority of their BUs after the 20 minute mark. For my 70 BU IPA I only put in ~22 BUs at the 60 min mark.
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Offline deepsouth

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Re: a black ipa... how does this look?
« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2010, 02:20:36 PM »
Agree with blatz on the bitterness - most of my American IPAs get the majority of their BUs after the 20 minute mark. For my 70 BU IPA I only put in ~22 BUs at the 60 min mark.

how much hops do you have to add to get most of your bittering done at 20 minutes or later?????
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bottled:     white house honey ale

Offline beersk

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Re: a black ipa... how does this look?
« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2010, 02:34:01 PM »
Still don't get this fascination with black "IPAs"...
Watch out for those Cross Dressing Amateurs!

Offline blatz

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Re: a black ipa... how does this look?
« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2010, 02:53:13 PM »
Still don't get this fascination with black "IPAs"...

have you had Stone Sublimely Self Righteous?

how much hops do you have to add to get most of your bittering done at 20 minutes or later?????

 deepsouth - it depends a lot on the AA (of course) but I generally use 12-15oz of hops (mostly C-hops, Simcoe and Amarillo - so mostly high alpha stuff) for a 12gal batch of IPA - 2-3 for dryhop, ~2 for bittering, 8-10 for <20 minutes, including flameout additions.

The happiest people don’t necessarily have the best of everything; they just make the best of everything they have.

BJCP National: F0281