Author Topic: Interesting Observation wlp 530 vs 500  (Read 10222 times)

Offline James Lorden

  • Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 337
  • Forest Hill, MD
    • View Profile
Interesting Observation wlp 530 vs 500
« on: October 19, 2011, 05:41:53 AM »
http://flic.kr/p/auLxFy

So I recently posted this picture of a split batch tripel using wlp 500 and wlp 530.  The recipe is a 1.083 OG all pilsner with 2.5 lbs of cane sugar for 6 gallons at the end of the boil.  The wort was cooled to 64 pitched and each carboy was aerated with 1.5 liters of O2 for 90 seconds measured with a flow meter.  Yeast starters were made side by side and production date of the yeast vials was within a week of each other.  Fermentation started at about 13 hours and was vigourous - see the picture, both were jumping out of the fermenter.  Fermented at 64 and slowly raised to 70 over the first few days.

So here is where we are right now - the WLP 500 is at 1.012 and and the WLP 530 is at 1.036 - neither is currently showing signs of active fermentation.

I have made this recipe with WLP 500 3 times in the past and have won awards with the beer, tastes great in the fermenter right now.  This WLP 530 is a mystery to me, never used it for this recipe before.  I am wondering if this could be a case of that yeast not playing well with the cane sugar addition in the boil - all those simple sugars up front got gobbled up and the yeast tired out before attacking the maltose.  However the WLP 500 just blasted through it (which is consistent with my prior experience).

Now I want to go back and rebrew this beer but add the sugar at mid fermentation and see if the results change.

In the short term I am going to jack up the temp on the 530 to 74 degrees to see if it will get rolling again.  If that doesn't work I will rack the WLP 500 into a corny and create a starter out of the yeast cake to pitch back into the wlp 530 stalled fermentaion once super active.

 
« Last Edit: October 19, 2011, 05:48:24 AM by James Lorden »
James Lorden
Beer Drinker Beer Maker & Beer Judge

Offline jeffy

  • I spend way too much time on the AHA forum
  • ********
  • Posts: 2902
  • Tampa, Fl
    • View Profile
Re: Interesting Observation wlp 530 vs 500
« Reply #1 on: October 19, 2011, 06:01:23 AM »
That sounds like a good plan.  I'm interested in the reults of the late sugar addition if you do go ahead with that.
Jeff Gladish, Tampa (989.3, 175.1 Apparent Rennarian)
Homebrewing since 1990
AHA member since 1991, now a lifetime member
BJCP judge since 1995

Offline dbarber

  • Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 321
    • View Profile
Re: Interesting Observation wlp 530 vs 500
« Reply #2 on: October 19, 2011, 06:15:20 AM »
Let  us know the results after you re-brew.  The last two times I've used  WY3787 (wyeast equivalent of 530) they both ended up under-attenuated despite pitching enough yeast and ramping up the fermentation temps into the low 70s.
Dave Barber
Orwigsburg, PA
AHA Member, BJCP National

Offline James Lorden

  • Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 337
  • Forest Hill, MD
    • View Profile
Re: Interesting Observation wlp 530 vs 500
« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2011, 06:19:30 AM »
I think that Bluesman has a Tripel in the tank with the 530.  I'd like to here about his process and the results he's getting.
James Lorden
Beer Drinker Beer Maker & Beer Judge

Offline bluesman

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 8808
  • Delaware
    • View Profile
Re: Interesting Observation wlp 530 vs 500
« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2011, 06:39:42 AM »
I think that Bluesman has a Tripel in the tank with the 530.  I'd like to here about his process and the results he's getting.

Actually redbeerman and I both made Quads. I used a WLP 530 yeast cake from a BPA and the quad started at 1.106 then finished at 1.030, whereas redbeerman made his Quad using WLP 500 starting at 1.103 and finishing at 1.010. We are going to blend the Quads together to get the best of both worlds.

Yes James...I have a Tripel in the primary with WLP 530 right now. I'll let you know the finishing gravity when it's done. I mashed at 147F and used 4 lbs of sugar in an 11 gallon batch. I pitched at 64F on Sunday. It's still going as I type.  :)
Ron Price

Offline majorvices

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 8080
  • Polka. If its too loud you're too young.
    • View Profile
    • Yellowhammer Brewing Company
Re: Interesting Observation wlp 530 vs 500
« Reply #5 on: October 19, 2011, 06:50:47 AM »
Wlp500 is my Belgian house strain. I use ot from everything fromy Belgian White ale to my dark Belgian specialty ales. It's a work horse strain and is easy to bottom crop unlike a lot of other Belgian strains. I  surprised it doesn't getore love.

That said 530 is one of my favorite strains as well. No telling why it pooped out on you but I do not think it was the sugar. I would actually prefer to use 530 for many of my recipes but the 500 is more versitile and is used in one oft flag ship beers.
Cowboy. Pirate. Brewer.

Offline tygo

  • I spend way too much time on the AHA forum
  • ********
  • Posts: 2622
  • Sterling, VA
    • View Profile
Re: Interesting Observation wlp 530 vs 500
« Reply #6 on: October 19, 2011, 07:08:05 AM »
I've brewed five batches of my strong golden ale using 3787 all of which included about 20% sugar added at the beginning of the boil.  Apparent attenuation on those batches ranged from 89 - 96%.  

Edit - Actually four of those beers were with 3787 and one was with 530.  The 530 was actually the 89%.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2011, 07:14:04 AM by tygo »
Clint
Wort Hogs

Fermenting: Wit
On Tap: Lucifer's Hammer Golden Strong Ale, Dopplebock, Old Fuzzynut's Ale

Offline narvin

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1467
  • Baltimore
    • View Profile
Re: Interesting Observation wlp 530 vs 500
« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2011, 07:25:48 AM »
I've never had problems using 530 with cane sugar in the boil.  My last tripel was ~20% cane sugar (percent extract), OG 1.078, and got down to 1.010 or so.
Please do not reply if your[sic] an evil alien!
Thanks

Offline richardt

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1227
    • View Profile
Re: Interesting Observation wlp 530 vs 500
« Reply #8 on: October 19, 2011, 08:56:35 AM »
I did a split-batched dubbel with WL500 (Chimay) and WL530 (Westmalle) earlier this year. 
I don't recall any underattenuation issues with either strain, though I think the 500 did the job better and faster.
Judges consistently scored the 500 dubbel better than the 530 dubbel, and, while both are good, I agree that the 500 is better.
WL550 (Achouffe) also produces great dubbels.  May want to try 500 and 550 next time.


Offline denny

  • Administrator
  • Retired with too much time on my hands
  • *****
  • Posts: 14100
  • Noti OR [1991.4, 287.6deg] AR
    • View Profile
    • Dennybrew
Re: Interesting Observation wlp 530 vs 500
« Reply #9 on: October 19, 2011, 09:52:10 AM »
I've brewed five batches of my strong golden ale using 3787 all of which included about 20% sugar added at the beginning of the boil.  Apparent attenuation on those batches ranged from 89 - 96%.  

That pretty much matches my experience.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

Offline andyi

  • Assistant Brewer
  • ***
  • Posts: 138
    • View Profile
Re: Interesting Observation wlp 530 vs 500
« Reply #10 on: October 19, 2011, 10:07:47 AM »


My go to Belgian strains are WY3522 and WLP530.   I have experienced good attenuation with the 530 but on my last Tripel an alcohol "sweetness" was very noticable and never totally disapated.

Offline hokerer

  • I spend way too much time on the AHA forum
  • ********
  • Posts: 2639
  • Manassas, VA
    • View Profile
Re: Interesting Observation wlp 530 vs 500
« Reply #11 on: October 19, 2011, 11:20:36 AM »
I've brewed five batches of my strong golden ale using 3787 all of which included about 20% sugar added at the beginning of the boil.  Apparent attenuation on those batches ranged from 89 - 96%.  

Good to hear.  My last Dubbel I did with 1214 but I bought 3787 for the next attempt.
Joe

Offline rstansbu

  • 1st Kit
  • *
  • Posts: 11
    • View Profile
Re: Interesting Observation wlp 530 vs 500
« Reply #12 on: October 19, 2011, 11:38:36 AM »
I use both 500 and 530 frequently, and I'm surprised at your results because I normally see slightly better attenuation with the 500.  I consistently see attenuation in the 90+% range with both strains.  If we assume all things were equal between your two recipes, I'll throw out the possibility that temperature may have caused your issue.  I posted something similar in another thread, but I'll throw it out there again.  Stan Hieronymus in his book "Brew Like a Monk" discusses a phenomemom experienced by Belgian brewers with these yeast strains in which the high fermentation temperature drops too suddenly and the yeast become dormant.  I have seen this for myself.  If you let the exothermic reaction of the yeast naturally drive up the temperature, the temperature can quickly drop once activity in the fermenter begins to slow causing the yeast to crash.  Taking the temperature back up won't wake up the yeast either.  It's a strange thing, but very real and could esily be the cause of your issue.

Offline James Lorden

  • Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 337
  • Forest Hill, MD
    • View Profile
Re: Interesting Observation wlp 530 vs 500
« Reply #13 on: October 19, 2011, 12:03:13 PM »
The fermenters were both in the same temp controlled box and so I am pretty comfortable that the temps were the same.  Now it is possible that the wlp 500 liked my ramp up schedule better then the 530, but there was nothing dramatic going on here (two degrees a day from 64 to 70....


Based on others observations I am really at a loss here!

Here's a thought but it seems impossible - The picture is posted that shows the blow off - it was insane.  My blow off bucket was full of yeast.  Is it possible to blow off so much yeast that there isn't enogh to fully ferment the beer.

Seems ridiculous to even say because there should still be tons and tons of yeast in suspension at that stage of fermentation - just running low on ideas on this one.
James Lorden
Beer Drinker Beer Maker & Beer Judge

Offline rjharper

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 619
    • View Profile
    • Angry Scotsman Brewing
Re: Interesting Observation wlp 530 vs 500
« Reply #14 on: October 20, 2011, 09:19:35 AM »
I've made two tripels with WLP530. First one went from 1.084 to 1.012 with 2lbs of belgian candi sugar.  Second time I used cane sugar, and went from 1.090 to 1.020.
Ross
Red Earth Brewers (Oklahoma City, OK)
Tippecanoe Homebrewers Circle (West Lafayette, IN)

Angry Scotsman Brewing
http://www.angryscotbrew.com
http://www.facebook.com/angryscotbrew
http://www.twitter.com/angryscotbrew