[jivetyrant]

I'm taking a stab at my wife's favorite style, irish red, but I've heard of extract/partial mash brewers having bad luck with them in the past.  While browsing Northern Brewer I happened upon a new product, rye LME!  It promises to allow true irish reds to be brewed with extract so I decided to go for it!  Here's the recipe I'll be following, I will also include the information for the rye LME as it is a blend of malted grains.  Apparently I also have the tendency to overdo it on the crystal grains, I'm only just now catching on to that!

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 6.95 gal
Post Boil Volume: 6.24 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.50 gal   
Bottling Volume: 5.50 gal
Estimated OG: 1.048 SG
Estimated Color: 14.2 SRM
Estimated IBU: 23.4 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 72.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 0.0 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt                   Name                                     
1 lbs                  Rye, Flaked (2.0 SRM)                   
8.0 oz                Crystal Rye Malt (Thomas Fawcett) (80.0SRM)
8.0 oz                Crystal, Medium (Simpsons) (55.0 SRM)   
3.0 oz                Special Roast (Briess) (50.0 SRM)       
2.0 oz                Roasted Barley (300.0 SRM)               
6 lbs                  Rye malt syrup (6.0 SRM)                 
1 lbs                  Dememera Sugar (2.0 SRM)                 
1.00 oz               Liberty [3.40 %] - Boil 60.0 min         Hop           8        11.6 IBUs     
1.00 oz               Sterling [7.00 %] - Boil 15.0 min        Hop           9        11.8 IBUs     
0.50 tsp              Irish Moss (Boil 10.0 mins)              Fining        10       -             
0.50 tsp              Yeast Nutrient (Boil 10.0 mins)          Other         11       -             
2L starter               Irish Ale Yeast (White Labs #WLP004)     Yeast         12       -             

The info for the rye LME is as follows, pulled straight from NB:

"This proprietary blend of 70% 2-row, 20% malted rye, and 10% caramel 40 malt allows you to formulate your own one-of-a-kind rye beer! Our Rye Malt Syrup provides 1.035 ppg and is approximately 6 L"

Thanks for any input you may have!

[dak0415]

I don't know where rye malt is the standard for an Irish Red.  Your recipe looks real tasty, except I wouldn't call it an Irish Red.

The flaked rye is going to make it cloudy, without a mini mash, so lose it.

For steeping grains I would use
8 oz - Crystal 120
6 oz - Carared
2 oz - Carafa Special II or DebitTered Black Malt

That will give you the deep garnet color you are looking for.

[rjharper]

I'm also not familiar with adding rye to Irish Reds.  The recipe looks good, but with rye and demerara sugar I wouldn't place it as Irish.

Back when I was doing extract, I used this recipe.  It was always very well received. Makes a very malt forward Red Ale.

1 lb Crystal 60
1 oz Black Patent
2 oz Roast Barley
6.6 lbs Light LME
1 lb Light DME
1 oz Brewers Gold @ 60 mins
1 oz Mt Hood @ 15 mins
WLP004 Irish Ale
1.055 OG, 27 IBU, 16 SRM

[denny]

If you use the flaked rye and rye malt, you'll need to do a minimash with some base grain to convert them.

[tschmidlin]

The rye syrup is already 10% crystal, and you're adding crystal 55 and crystal rye.  At least lose the c55.  I'd also leave out the flaked rye and special roast and add a bit more roasted barley for color.

I've never heard of rye in an Irish red either.  This is more of a Rye-rish red.

[Hokerer]

I've never heard of rye in an Irish red either.  This is more of a Rye-rish red.

"Ruh-Roh, Rye-rish"

[jivetyrant]

This is an excellent example of the perils of assumption!

I honestly always (and this is going back to my pre-homebrewing days) that "red" beers included rye!  I don't really know WHY that was, I guess it's just one of the early (erroneous) connections that folks make which persists until proven incorrect.

So.... I already have *all* the ingredients for the recipe I posted.  I like rjharper's recipe so I will probably swap to that.  Now what do I make with the indredients I have for my rye-rish red?  Does it perhaps sound interesting enough to attempt anyway?

[tschmidlin]

Well, I'd still leave out the c55, I think there's too much crystal.  And leave out the flaked rye, you've got nothing to convert it.  Brew it with the rest and see what you get.  It sounds interesting enough to me to try, pm for my address when it's done

[jivetyrant]

Here's the modified recipe, I think I'll go for it!  Thanks for the push, folks!

I cut back the demerera to .5lb and added .5lb of extra light DME to bump the FG up a bit from 1.009 to 1.011

I cut out the C55 and flaked rye and bumped the roasted barley and special roast up to 4oz each.  The crystal rye stayed at 8oz.  I also decreased the addition time of the sterling from 15 mins to 10, which should keep the IBU's at about 20.  ABV estimate is 4.7%

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 6.95 gal
Post Boil Volume: 6.24 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.50 gal   
Bottling Volume: 5.50 gal
Estimated OG: 1.047 SG
Estimated Color: 14.6 SRM
Estimated IBU: 23.7 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 72.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 0.0 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt                   Name                                                        Type          #        %/IBU         
8.0 oz                Crystal Rye Malt (Thomas Fawcett) (80.0 SRM)          1        6.3 %         
4.0 oz                Roasted Barley (300.0 SRM)                     Grain         2        3.1 %         
4.0 oz                Special Roast (Briess) (50.0 SRM)            Grain         3        3.1 %         
8.0 oz                Extra Light Dry Extract (3.0 SRM)           Dry Extract   4        6.3 %         
6 lbs                 Rye malt syrup (6.0 SRM)                         Extract       5        75.0 %       
8.0 oz                Dememera Sugar (2.0 SRM)                     Sugar         6        6.3 %         
1.00 oz               Liberty [3.40 %] - Boil 60.0 min                Hop           7        11.7 IBUs     
1.00 oz               Sterling [7.00 %] - Boil 15.0 min               Hop           8        12.0 IBUs     
0.50 tsp              Irish Moss (Boil 10.0 mins)                       Fining        9        -             
0.50 tsp              Yeast Nutrient (Boil 10.0 mins)                 Other         10       -             
2L starter             Irish Ale Yeast (White Labs #WLP004)     Yeast         11     

[rjharper]

  I like rjharper's recipe so I will probably swap to that.

I don't think you'll be disappointed.  1lb of C60 sounds a lot, but it really helps the malty flavour.  Use a quality LME like Briess or Muntons to get good attenuation.  The hopping schedule is calculated for a 3 gal partial boil, then topped off to 5 gal.  If you do a full boil, you'll want to reduce the hops a bit to account for the higher utilization.

Let us know how this, and your Rye-Rish turn out.  Its nice to have a follow up / conclusion to recipe discussions, to see what works well.