Author Topic: Suddenly Chill Haze  (Read 1796 times)

Offline James Lorden

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Suddenly Chill Haze
« on: November 15, 2011, 09:09:40 PM »
Last few brews that I have made suddenly have chill haze.  I have made three recent changes to my process. 1) Using Fermcap in the boil to prevent boil overs 2) fining with gelatin 3) switched from pellets to whole hops.

I don't see any reason why the hops would cause the problem.  The gelatin should be helping get rid of chill haze unless I am just using it wrong, but I've done my research and I'm pretty sure that my technique is sound.  That leaves the fermcap.  Is there any chance that by suppressing the foam early in the boil that this is somehow effecting hot break which may be leading to the haze?
James Lorden
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Offline euge

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Re: Suddenly Chill Haze
« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2011, 11:53:27 PM »
If you use a lot of hops then yes that can cause a haze.
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Offline tschmidlin

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Re: Suddenly Chill Haze
« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2011, 12:22:29 AM »
I use fermcap and haven't noticed chill haze.
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Offline tygo

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Re: Suddenly Chill Haze
« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2011, 04:40:49 AM »
I use fermcap and haven't noticed chill haze.

+1  I've used fermcap in the past and haven't had any problems with chill haze.
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Offline majorvices

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Re: Suddenly Chill Haze
« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2011, 06:13:10 AM »
You water may have changed and your pH may be off so that you are not getting a good hot break. Do you check pH?
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Offline James Lorden

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Re: Suddenly Chill Haze
« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2011, 07:24:14 AM »
I have well water that is pretty consistent.  I've had it tested by Ward a few times.  I make water adjustments to achieve proper pH using our friend Martin's Bru'n water spreadsheet.

My gelatin techniche is to boil water then allow it the water to cool down to the 160 -170 range BEFORE adding the gelatin.  Allow this to disolve then add to chilled beer and allow to settle for 5 days.  I am using 1/2 pack of knox in 1 cup of water.

Another thing that could be at play here is my chiller.  I used to use a whirlpool immersion chiller but last year I purchased a therminator.  One of the downside of the therminator is that it transfers all of that break material into the fermenter.  Perhaps this is introducing some haze and I just didn't notice.  In looking back at my brew logs I had filtered the first few beers I did using the plate chiller since they were very light so chill haze could have gone unnoticed.
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Offline bluesman

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Re: Suddenly Chill Haze
« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2011, 07:36:36 AM »
Almost sounds like you have a permanent haze condition. Mash chemistry (water) or sparging techniques which may induce tannin extraction are typical causes of permanent haze. You stated that you checked your mash pH but are you fly sparging?
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Offline James Lorden

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Re: Suddenly Chill Haze
« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2011, 08:38:44 AM »
I see where you are going with this, and no, I do not check the pH of my final runnings to determine when to stop fly sparging.  I used to but after enough batches I just sort of new that it wouldn't be a problem.  Perhaps worth a double check on the next few batches. 

If it is a tannin extraction causing the haze it's not showing up in the flavor or mouthfeel since the beers still taste the same.

I will test the permanent haze tonight.  I have a tripel (SRM 5) with the haze issue.  I will take a picture of a glass right off the tap and then another after it approaches room temperature to see if the haze disipates.
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Offline davidgzach

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Re: Suddenly Chill Haze
« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2011, 07:59:22 AM »
I have well water that is pretty consistent.  I've had it tested by Ward a few times.  I make water adjustments to achieve proper pH using our friend Martin's Bru'n water spreadsheet.

My gelatin techniche is to boil water then allow it the water to cool down to the 160 -170 range BEFORE adding the gelatin.  Allow this to disolve then add to chilled beer and allow to settle for 5 days.  I am using 1/2 pack of knox in 1 cup of water.

Another thing that could be at play here is my chiller.  I used to use a whirlpool immersion chiller but last year I purchased a therminator.  One of the downside of the therminator is that it transfers all of that break material into the fermenter.  Perhaps this is introducing some haze and I just didn't notice.  In looking back at my brew logs I had filtered the first few beers I did using the plate chiller since they were very light so chill haze could have gone unnoticed.

How are you pumping through the Therminator?  Before I bought my IC, I was using an ice bath and swirling the beer as soon as I put it in the tub.  I was getting hot-side aeration which was causing the beer to be hazy.  If you are aerating somehow above 95F, you run this risk and it could be the culprit.  My 2 cents......
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Re: Suddenly Chill Haze
« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2011, 08:50:01 AM »
I have well water that is pretty consistent.  I've had it tested by Ward a few times.  I make water adjustments to achieve proper pH using our friend Martin's Bru'n water spreadsheet.

My gelatin techniche is to boil water then allow it the water to cool down to the 160 -170 range BEFORE adding the gelatin.  Allow this to disolve then add to chilled beer and allow to settle for 5 days.  I am using 1/2 pack of knox in 1 cup of water.

Another thing that could be at play here is my chiller.  I used to use a whirlpool immersion chiller but last year I purchased a therminator.  One of the downside of the therminator is that it transfers all of that break material into the fermenter.  Perhaps this is introducing some haze and I just didn't notice.  In looking back at my brew logs I had filtered the first few beers I did using the plate chiller since they were very light so chill haze could have gone unnoticed.

How are you pumping through the Therminator?  Before I bought my IC, I was using an ice bath and swirling the beer as soon as I put it in the tub.  I was getting hot-side aeration which was causing the beer to be hazy.  If you are aerating somehow above 95F, you run this risk and it could be the culprit.  My 2 cents......

I have never heard of hot side aeration causing haze.  Are you sure that was the cause?  The jury is even out on whether it causes premature staling, but I avoid it anyway.
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Offline tomsawyer

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Re: Suddenly Chill Haze
« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2011, 01:05:31 PM »
I think its your gelatin that is causing this.  I would put the gelatin in cold water and warm it up rather than adding to hot water.  I don't think its supposed to completely melt/dissolve, just become hydrated.  Or leave it out of the next batch entirely, after all its obviously not doing what is is supposed to.  I use Fermcap and have clear beer, I've used whole hops and pellets, I've pitched plenty of trub, none of that automatically makes a beer cloudy.
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Offline James Lorden

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Re: Suddenly Chill Haze
« Reply #11 on: November 17, 2011, 01:39:03 PM »
I think its your gelatin that is causing this.  I would put the gelatin in cold water and warm it up rather than adding to hot water.  I don't think its supposed to completely melt/dissolve, just become hydrated.  Or leave it out of the next batch entirely, after all its obviously not doing what is is supposed to.  I use Fermcap and have clear beer, I've used whole hops and pellets, I've pitched plenty of trub, none of that automatically makes a beer cloudy.

Thanks, I will do some additional gelatin research and report back the findings.  It's amazing how many different oppinions there are on how to effectively use the stuff for clarifying beer. I wouldn't say that it's not working because it's going a great job of quickly clearing out yeast.
James Lorden
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Offline davidgzach

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Re: Suddenly Chill Haze
« Reply #12 on: November 17, 2011, 01:42:36 PM »
I have well water that is pretty consistent.  I've had it tested by Ward a few times.  I make water adjustments to achieve proper pH using our friend Martin's Bru'n water spreadsheet.

My gelatin techniche is to boil water then allow it the water to cool down to the 160 -170 range BEFORE adding the gelatin.  Allow this to disolve then add to chilled beer and allow to settle for 5 days.  I am using 1/2 pack of knox in 1 cup of water.

Another thing that could be at play here is my chiller.  I used to use a whirlpool immersion chiller but last year I purchased a therminator.  One of the downside of the therminator is that it transfers all of that break material into the fermenter.  Perhaps this is introducing some haze and I just didn't notice.  In looking back at my brew logs I had filtered the first few beers I did using the plate chiller since they were very light so chill haze could have gone unnoticed.

How are you pumping through the Therminator?  Before I bought my IC, I was using an ice bath and swirling the beer as soon as I put it in the tub.  I was getting hot-side aeration which was causing the beer to be hazy.  If you are aerating somehow above 95F, you run this risk and it could be the culprit.  My 2 cents......

I have never heard of hot side aeration causing haze.  Are you sure that was the cause?  The jury is even out on whether it causes premature staling, but I avoid it anyway.

Yep, at least that is what my research told me when I couldn't figure out why it was happening.  I waited until the wort got below 95 before aerating and no more haze.  Now I have the IC so not an issue....
Dave Zach

Offline Pi

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Re: Suddenly Chill Haze
« Reply #13 on: December 21, 2011, 09:58:12 AM »
Interesting topic. I as of late have been getting some really cloudy beers. I have been waiting about 20 minutes or so after the boil for the hot break to settle before pumping thru a CFWC. Think I should transfer immediatly after the boil?
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Offline davidgzach

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Re: Suddenly Chill Haze
« Reply #14 on: December 21, 2011, 10:02:41 AM »
Interesting topic. I as of late have been getting some really cloudy beers. I have been waiting about 20 minutes or so after the boil for the hot break to settle before pumping thru a CFWC. Think I should transfer immediatly after the boil?

My vote is-definitely. 
Dave Zach