[dfhar]

I started doing the long rest at 160 after I read this on Kai's page on decoction mashing.

From:
http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Decoction_Mashing

Narziss [Narziss, 2005] and Fix [Fix, 1999] suggest, that a rest at 158 - 162 *F (70 - 72 *C) benefits head retention and body of the beer though glycoproteides that are extracted from the malt but not degraded by enzymatic activity. Because of that Narziss suggests holding this rest up to 60 min.

I've been meaning to try the textbook Schmitz process. I have an inkling keeping both alpha and beta active for the final rest could potentially result in a lower limit of attenuation and a drier beer, depending on the final rest temperature. With 1.050 wort made from mostly pils and a little munich/vienna, my fast ferment tests usually go down to 1.011 or 1.012ish, which I really like for Helles or Marzen beers. I'd like to try and get that down to 1.009 for a Kolsch or German Pilsner.

[wobdee]

I started doing the long rest at 160 after I read this on Kai's page on decoction mashing.

From:
http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Decoction_Mashing

Narziss [Narziss, 2005] and Fix [Fix, 1999] suggest, that a rest at 158 - 162 *F (70 - 72 *C) benefits head retention and body of the beer though glycoproteides that are extracted from the malt but not degraded by enzymatic activity. Because of that Narziss suggests holding this rest up to 60 min.

I've been meaning to try the textbook Schmitz process. I have an inkling keeping both alpha and beta active for the final rest could potentially result in a lower limit of attenuation and a drier beer, depending on the final rest temperature. With 1.050 wort made from mostly pils and a little munich/vienna, my fast ferment tests usually go down to 1.011 or 1.012ish, which I really like for Helles or Marzen beers. I'd like to try and get that down to 1.009 for a Kolsch or German Pilsner.

Ah, that's good to know. I'm brewing tomorrow, 50/50 pils/munich lager. I think I'll change things up a bit and follow your mash schedule. Thanks for posting.

My Pils usually end up 1.012-1.015 with a straight Schmitz mash. I think I'm going to have to drop my first rest down a couple degrees if I'm looking to get a drier beer.

[hopfenundmalz]

I started doing the long rest at 160 after I read this on Kai's page on decoction mashing.

From:
http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Decoction_Mashing

Narziss [Narziss, 2005] and Fix [Fix, 1999] suggest, that a rest at 158 - 162 *F (70 - 72 *C) benefits head retention and body of the beer though glycoproteides that are extracted from the malt but not degraded by enzymatic activity. Because of that Narziss suggests holding this rest up to 60 min.

I've been meaning to try the textbook Schmitz process. I have an inkling keeping both alpha and beta active for the final rest could potentially result in a lower limit of attenuation and a drier beer, depending on the final rest temperature. With 1.050 wort made from mostly pils and a little munich/vienna, my fast ferment tests usually go down to 1.011 or 1.012ish, which I really like for Helles or Marzen beers. I'd like to try and get that down to 1.009 for a Kolsch or German Pilsner.

Yeah, a 45-60 min rest at 158-160F gives excellent head retention.

[ynotbrusum]

With 10 gallon batches, I would think that a full grist decoction would be tough to pull off in a reasonable time frame.  Maybe I'll do a 5 gallon batch using that suggested approach mentioned above.  The other thought I have is using a second vessel in which the liquor could be heated to 160 or so and mash out with the decocted grist....

[wobdee]

I started doing the long rest at 160 after I read this on Kai's page on decoction mashing.

From:
http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Decoction_Mashing

Narziss [Narziss, 2005] and Fix [Fix, 1999] suggest, that a rest at 158 - 162 *F (70 - 72 *C) benefits head retention and body of the beer though glycoproteides that are extracted from the malt but not degraded by enzymatic activity. Because of that Narziss suggests holding this rest up to 60 min.

I've been meaning to try the textbook Schmitz process. I have an inkling keeping both alpha and beta active for the final rest could potentially result in a lower limit of attenuation and a drier beer, depending on the final rest temperature. With 1.050 wort made from mostly pils and a little munich/vienna, my fast ferment tests usually go down to 1.011 or 1.012ish, which I really like for Helles or Marzen beers. I'd like to try and get that down to 1.009 for a Kolsch or German Pilsner.

Yeah, a 45-60 min rest at 158-160F gives excellent head retention.

That's one thing my beers have been lacking, I'm going to give a 160 degree 60 min rest a try. Thanks

[rabeb25]

Sounds pretty close to the Hokurtz method I use. I don't decoct, but all my lagers get it. I do 145 for 40 min, and 158 for 30. Great fermentability but still has great body, and head retention.

[Wort-H.O.G.]

I've done the same. Wish I could say I could perceive a difference in finished product, but can't say I do.


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[HoosierBrew]

I've done the same. Wish I could say I could perceive a difference in finished product, but can't say I do.


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+1.  I don't either.

[Wort-H.O.G.]

Yeah it's really about the maillard reactions. I've achieved better results with some melanoidin and higher mash temps with longer rests.


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[Wort-H.O.G.]

Sounds pretty close to the Hokurtz method I use. I don't decoct, but all my lagers get it. I do 145 for 40 min, and 158 for 30. Great fermentability but still has great body, and head retention.

if you interested in an experiment, throw in 6-8 oz of melanoidin, mash in at 156F-158F and let it rest for 75-90 minutes.

[coolman26]

if you interested in an experiment, throw in 6-8 oz of melanoidin, mash in at 156F-158F and let it rest for 75-90 minutes.
[/quote]
So you also can't taste a difference in decoctions?  I have read this from several people.  I've never mashed that high for worrying about attenuating low enough.  I may give this experiment a try next weekend when I start my lager batches.

[Wort-H.O.G.]

if you interested in an experiment, throw in 6-8 oz of melanoidin, mash in at 156F-158F and let it rest for 75-90 minutes.

So you also can't taste a difference in decoctions?  I have read this from several people.  I've never mashed that high for worrying about attenuating low enough.  I may give this experiment a try next weekend when I start my lager batches.

if you haven't seen this thread, check it out. https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=22186.0

[coolman26]

Thanks great read.  Funny that I have brewed this long and worried so much about my mash tamp.  I've always used single infusion, but was thinking about different steps.  After reading this, why would I go through the trouble? 

[rabeb25]

That didn't/doesn't hold true for me.  My mashes pretty much follow this rule of thumb:

158 =1.018
156=1.016
154=1.014
152=1.012
150=1.010
148=1.008

This is for my system, pretty much regardless of malt type.
HERMS(two loops, a heat and a cool, accurate to 1/10th of a degree), mill gap of .025, 60 minutes, 5.3-5.5 pH.

I posted my results to Denny's wall, but I have no idea how to find it.

There is no way I will mash a Pils at 156 and add melanoidian, that is a sure recipe for disaster(for me).

[mabrungard]

158 =1.018
156=1.016
154=1.014
152=1.012
150=1.010
148=1.008

Interesting result. Thinking back to some of my last brews, I believe my results are similar. I had just not thought about it in this way. Thanks.