Author Topic: Sugar and yeast nutrient  (Read 4307 times)

Offline nateo

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Re: Sugar and yeast nutrient
« Reply #15 on: August 01, 2012, 09:52:28 AM »
I started adding the sugar later for two practical reasons: I don't like using a blow-off tube, and I like pitching a lot of active yeast. Since most Belgian strains are especially "top-cropping," no blow-off tube + lots of active yeast + lots of sugar (high OG) meant my airlock tube got plugged up and my bucket blew its lid off, spraying kraeusen all over my fermentation freezer.

Adding the sugar later keeps the height of the kraeusen lower, which was my primary goal. The more I learned about yeast health, osmotic pressure, and the effects of high temperatures on fermentation, the more theoretical reasons I had to continue what I was doing.

I'm sure a blow-off tube would've been more practical, but I just didn't feel like messing with one.   
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Offline nateo

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Re: Sugar and yeast nutrient
« Reply #16 on: August 01, 2012, 09:58:58 AM »
There might also be differences in the flavor profile if the yeast gets the simple sugars later compared to having them present in the beginning.

I've noticed a (completely subjective and possibly incorrect) qualitative difference in my perception of phenols and esters in Belgian beers where I added dextrose once primary fermentation is about 3/4 complete. For whatever reason I don't notice the same effects when adding sucrose instead of dextrose. 
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Offline mihalybaci

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Re: Sugar and yeast nutrient
« Reply #17 on: August 01, 2012, 10:22:48 AM »
Seems like the overall recommendation (aside from a starter) would be to use some sort of yeast nutrient. A few of you have mentioned using Wyeast's brand, is this just a personal preference or is it superior to say, White Labs Servomyces?

Also, thanks again for the replies, this has been an enlightening thread.

Offline denny

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Re: Sugar and yeast nutrient
« Reply #18 on: August 01, 2012, 10:24:24 AM »
Don't we hate it all when Denny's experiences don't line up with the theory  ;)

Kai

I know I do...then I've got to figure out what's wrong with the damn theory!  ;)

Seriously, though, even though I post experiences that differ from theory I try to encourage people to try things and decide for themselves.  In the case of adding sugar to the fermenter, the few times I tried it in a standardized recipe I really didn't see different results than adding it to the kettle.  But I'm always ready to admit that I screwed something up, so I'll try it again.  Just like decoctions...just becasue I haven't found much if any difference by doing them, I still do decoctions sometimes just to see if I missed something.
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Offline denny

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Re: Sugar and yeast nutrient
« Reply #19 on: August 01, 2012, 10:26:11 AM »
There might also be differences in the flavor profile if the yeast gets the simple sugars later compared to having them present in the beginning.

I've noticed a (completely subjective and possibly incorrect) qualitative difference in my perception of phenols and esters in Belgian beers where I added dextrose once primary fermentation is about 3/4 complete. For whatever reason I don't notice the same effects when adding sucrose instead of dextrose.

Dammit....now I'm gonna have to get a tripel into brewing rotation to test this!
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Offline denny

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Re: Sugar and yeast nutrient
« Reply #20 on: August 01, 2012, 10:26:59 AM »
Seems like the overall recommendation (aside from a starter) would be to use some sort of yeast nutrient. A few of you have mentioned using Wyeast's brand, is this just a personal preference or is it superior to say, White Labs Servomyces?

Also, thanks again for the replies, this has been an enlightening thread.

I use the Wyeast because it's locally made and it's what my LHBS carries.
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Offline nateo

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Re: Sugar and yeast nutrient
« Reply #21 on: August 01, 2012, 10:47:07 AM »
Without getting too deep into the weeds, I'll just say it's really hard for me to evaluate small differences in my beers. If we can't share our anecdotal experience, there's really no point to the AHA forum. I'll just say if you do try to evaluate two different methods, try to keep an open mind, because it's likely you'll just see what you want to see.

I strongly suggest against doing A/B taste tests, and do ABX triangle tasting. Have someone else pour the beer, and better yet find people you trust and have them blind-taste it for you. I could easily discern differences in the study I did recently when I compared A to B, but struggled telling any difference between A B and B again. Most judges could tell the difference between the two beers in the ABX analysis, so it's not impossible to discern subtle differences, just that I can't do it.

If I think there's a subtle difference in ester/phenol character from adding dextrose later, either I'm completely wrong, or the difference is actually huge, otherwise I would've missed it completely.
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Offline denny

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Re: Sugar and yeast nutrient
« Reply #22 on: August 01, 2012, 10:59:16 AM »
Without getting too deep into the weeds, I'll just say it's really hard for me to evaluate small differences in my beers. If we can't share our anecdotal experience, there's really no point to the AHA forum. I'll just say if you do try to evaluate two different methods, try to keep an open mind, because it's likely you'll just see what you want to see.

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Offline garc_mall

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Re: Sugar and yeast nutrient
« Reply #23 on: August 01, 2012, 11:18:18 AM »
Seems like the overall recommendation (aside from a starter) would be to use some sort of yeast nutrient. A few of you have mentioned using Wyeast's brand, is this just a personal preference or is it superior to say, White Labs Servomyces?

Also, thanks again for the replies, this has been an enlightening thread.

I use the Wyeast because it's locally made and it's what my LHBS carries.

Same here, on using Wyeast. I use 1/2 tsp (Or whatever they recommend for 5 gallons) to the yeast starter at the beginning of the boil, and another 1/2 tsp in the final 15 minutes of the full batch. I have found that I have a slightly quicker lag time, and it seems to be a healthier and more energetic ferment than when I forget. I have not noticed much difference flavor wise, but I also haven't done side by side comparisons.
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Sugar and yeast nutrient
« Reply #24 on: August 01, 2012, 12:10:11 PM »
My tripel usually hits about 90aa, with the incremental feeding technique I hit closer to 95. This was with 20% sugar and a loooong mash at 146-148 for both recipes. I've also sen it work well in one of my saison recipes that uses sugar.
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