[blatz]

Hey guys,

I did a Hockhurz decoction mash a few years ago, but it was on a friend's system and I didn't take good notes as it wasn't my brew.

I want to attempt a step mash Hockhurz on my next brew session, a vienna lager.

I have read through Kai's blog again, but I want to double check the specifics with you guys:

Mash in at 145 and hold for 30 min (beta)

Ramp up (via HERMs) to 158 <--- this will probably take about 20 min to do so.

Hold at 158 for 45 min (alpha)

Ramp up to Mashout.

Am I missing anything?  Is the alpha rest too high (or too low).  Are my times too long?

[beersk]

That looks just how I've done Hockhurz decoction.  Looks right as far as I know...I don't think the mashout at 168 is to be held for any prolonged period of time.

[blatz]

That looks just how I've done Hockhurz decoction.  Looks right as far as I know...I don't think the mashout at 168 is to be held for any prolonged period of time.

cool

I generally don't hold the mashout for more than a few minutes anyways unless I'm not paying attention. 

[davidgzach]

Blatz,

My Hochkurz is competely different, you are way off.  I go 146 to 158.....

Looks good!  Good luck!

Dave

[blatz]

welp, Beersmith miscalculated I guess and I ended up settling in at 149 - added ice and dropped it to 145 which took about 7 minutes, then let it rest for 20 before I started ramping up to 158. 

I debated for a minute about whether I should have just scrapped the hockhurz and go single infusion since I screwed the pooch on the strike in, but I really wanted to try it, so hopefully, I get at least some semblance of what it will be like.

[davidgzach]

Not perfect but you should still get the idea.....I'm sure it will still be tasty!

Dave

[Thirsty_Monk]

I do step mash and anywhere from 140-144F for Beta and 158-162 for alpha is fine. The mash out should not go over 172F.
Look at it that is is more "robust" mashing then singe infusion.

I am sure it will be just fine Paul.

[AmandaK]

I also just did my first Hochkurz mash on a Munich Dunkel. I nearly forgot that I wanted to do it (old habits), got the strike water up to temp for a 154* mash in and then realized that I was forgetting something. A few adjustments later and I mashed in at 144.9*, held for 30ish minutes (forgot to set the timer), my heat stick worked beautifully and brought is up to 158.3* within 15 minutes, rested for 45', then brought it up to 168.7* for mash out.

I got great efficiency too: 88%.

Something I was reading on Kai's wiki got me wondering though (http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Starch_Conversion):

In multi step saccharification rests like the German Hochkurz mash, the fermentability is mostly controlled through the length of the maltose rest which is held at 60-64 C (140-148F).

I would assume that most of us are doing 30 minute maltose rests... how much time would really be added on to increase fermentability?

[Pawtucket Patriot]

When I used to do Hochkurz decoctions, I would vary the maltose rest between 20-40 minutes depending on the fermentability profile I was going for.  On a german pilsner, I would do something like a 20-30 minute rest, while on a dunkel, I would shoot for more like a 40-minute maltose rest. I also varied the maltose rest temperature to further manipulate the fermentability.

[AmandaK]

When I used to do Hochkurz decoctions, I would vary the maltose rest between 20-40 minutes depending on the fermentability profile I was going for.  On a german pilsner, I would do something like a 20-30 minute rest, while on a dunkel, I would shoot for more like a 40-minute maltose rest. I also varied the maltose rest temperature to further manipulate the fermentability.

I thought a longer maltose rest would increase fermentability? Have I had this backwards the whole time?

Either way, thanks for the response! It'll give me something to play with.

[davidgzach]

Amanda, you have it right.....

[ynotbrusum]

I routinely end up doing a Hockhurz in the winter due to errors in hitting my temp for single infusion (so I  started weighing out my grains and storing them in the house overnight to get the single infusion mash temp right off the bat).  Just an observation...

[Kaiser]

I hold the maltose rest for 30 on more malt forward beers and for 45 min on pilsners.

Kai

[Pawtucket Patriot]

When I used to do Hochkurz decoctions, I would vary the maltose rest between 20-40 minutes depending on the fermentability profile I was going for.  On a german pilsner, I would do something like a 20-30 minute rest, while on a dunkel, I would shoot for more like a 40-minute maltose rest. I also varied the maltose rest temperature to further manipulate the fermentability.

I thought a longer maltose rest would increase fermentability? Have I had this backwards the whole time?

Either way, thanks for the response! It'll give me something to play with.

Bah, reverse that. I meant it the other way around.

[AmandaK]

I hold the maltose rest for 30 on more malt forward beers and for 45 min on pilsners.

Kai

Excellent. Thanks Kai!