Author Topic: Herbed Saison  (Read 761 times)

Offline Stevie

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 6858
    • View Profile
Herbed Saison
« on: January 27, 2014, 09:04:22 PM »
Saison with basil, thyme or rosemary. Cat 16E - Belgian Specialty or Cat 21A - Spice, Herb, or Vegetable Beer?

Offline Jimmy K

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 3646
  • Delaware
    • View Profile
Re: Herbed Saison
« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2014, 09:23:27 PM »
Either would be fine. I'd go with Belgian specialty.
Delmarva United Homebrewers - President by inverse coup - former president ousted himself.
AHA Member since 2006
BJCP Certified: B0958

Online denny

  • Administrator
  • Retired with too much time on my hands
  • *****
  • Posts: 19470
  • Noti OR [1991.4, 287.6deg] AR
    • View Profile
    • Dennybrew
Re: Herbed Saison
« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2014, 09:28:17 PM »
I'd go SHV.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Offline dkfick

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1054
    • View Profile
Re: Herbed Saison
« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2014, 09:29:53 PM »
Yes.  Belgian Specialty.  Example the Belgian Specialty style guidelines specifically mention a Belgian Christmas Spiced beer would go in that category (vs what you might think as just the Christmas Beer Category)
BJCP A0936 National Beer Judge and Mead Judge
Cicerone Certified Beer Server
AHA Member
CRAFT Homebrew Club
Sons of Liberty Homebrew Club
HBT "mors"

Offline udubdawg

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1080
    • View Profile
Re: Herbed Saison
« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2014, 03:32:03 PM »
if the herbs are a major part of the beer and individually noticeable, I'd go with 21A.  I think of 16E as the Belgian version of 23 - where it doesn't fit into just one other category.  Like combining chocolate/fruit/oak aging on a stout, having all of the above noticeable, and moving it to 23.  Note that many people disagree with me here and point to the guidelines.  "Note that many spice-based Belgian specialties may be entered in Category 16E." - to me the key words are Belgian Specialties.  If the beer was 16E without the herbs it is still 16E.  But if it is a classic style base with herbs I put it in 21A, just like if it was a robust porter with herbs or a American pale ale with herbs.

of course, if the herbs just added a little to the overall spicy nature of the beer and blend in well, I might enter as a straight saison, 16C. 

tl;dr:  you'll get a lot of different opinions on possible 16E placement.   ;D

good luck--
--Michael

Offline dkfick

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1054
    • View Profile
Re: Herbed Saison
« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2014, 04:15:50 PM »
if the herbs are a major part of the beer and individually noticeable, I'd go with 21A.  I think of 16E as the Belgian version of 23 - where it doesn't fit into just one other category.  Like combining chocolate/fruit/oak aging on a stout, having all of the above noticeable, and moving it to 23.  Note that many people disagree with me here and point to the guidelines.  "Note that many spice-based Belgian specialties may be entered in Category 16E." - to me the key words are Belgian Specialties.  If the beer was 16E without the herbs it is still 16E.  But if it is a classic style base with herbs I put it in 21A, just like if it was a robust porter with herbs or a American pale ale with herbs.

of course, if the herbs just added a little to the overall spicy nature of the beer and blend in well, I might enter as a straight saison, 16C. 

tl;dr:  you'll get a lot of different opinions on possible 16E placement.   ;D

good luck--
--Michael

That's basically what I was going to say until I actually looked that 16E and it listed "Belgian Spiced Christmas Beers".  Before I read that I would have made the same statement about a saison with christmas spices going in 21-B but the style guideline for 16E indicates that's where it should be... So following that logic a belgian base SHV should also be in 16E.... Though I wouldn't ding an entrant for entering the beer in either category... It's too close to call lol.
BJCP A0936 National Beer Judge and Mead Judge
Cicerone Certified Beer Server
AHA Member
CRAFT Homebrew Club
Sons of Liberty Homebrew Club
HBT "mors"

Offline Stevie

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 6858
    • View Profile
Re: Herbed Saison
« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2014, 04:23:00 PM »
I think 16E would have the fewest number of entires, and less chance of a pallet wrecker in the mix. Even if combined with all the other Cat 16 styles, I think it would stand out. The base is beer is solid and I think a medal winner on it's own. Dry, slightly tart, and spicy.

But, if I enter into 23A, I can also enter the base in 16C...  :-\

Offline udubdawg

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1080
    • View Profile
Re: Herbed Saison
« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2014, 04:55:58 PM »
I think 16E would have the fewest number of entires, and less chance of a pallet wrecker in the mix. Even if combined with all the other Cat 16 styles, I think it would stand out. The base is beer is solid and I think a medal winner on it's own. Dry, slightly tart, and spicy.

But, if I enter into 23A, I can also enter the base in 16C...  :-\

I dunno man...I haven't seen a competition in ages that does not have Category 16 as one of the biggest, mostly due to 16E entries, followed by 16C.

side note:  at the current growth rate Category 16 could catch American Ale/Stout/IPA for most NHC entries very soon.  All 4 were between 560 and 600 last year.