Author Topic: Rye Stout  (Read 1155 times)

Offline morticaixavier

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Re: Rye Stout
« Reply #15 on: March 14, 2014, 07:14:19 AM »
At the risk of jumping your thread, what exactly is cold steeping and what are its advantages?  Does it give you a less bitter roasted flavor?

You're spot on with the less bitter roasted flavor assumption. By no means am I an expert on the deal, but my method of cold steeping is to line a stock pot with a 5 gallon paint strainer bag. I crush my dark drain, add them to the bag, and then add 2 qt/lb of water. I let them steep for a day and stir occasionally. Then I add the "tea" to the boil with about 20 minutes to go. You will need to use more dark grains with this method than you would if you mashed them.

When you're cold steeping, do you stick the pot in the fridge?  I assume that if it's left at room temp you'd wind up with a bit of souring, but I am no expert.

My last non-Imperial stout tastes too dry for me and it may be the dark grains which were mashed along with the MO.  It could stand to be smooother.

I suspect the souring will be minimal if existant at all. the starches in the malt have not been converted in a room temp steep so while there are likely some bacteria on the malt, the bucket, the water etc. there is very little easily available food for them. Add to that that the most common souring bacteria present on grain like it a lot warmer than I keep my house this time of year.
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Offline Joe Sr.

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Re: Rye Stout
« Reply #16 on: March 14, 2014, 07:18:32 AM »
Thanks for the quick replies, gents.

I have to empty a few kegs before brewing again, but stout is top of the list for whenever that comes around.
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Offline morticaixavier

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Re: Rye Stout
« Reply #17 on: March 14, 2014, 07:21:01 AM »
I have a rye stout schedule for later this year and if I scaled it up to 11 gallons it would be 2.5 pounds of chocolate rye and a little over four pounds of roasted barley. I don't cold steep though, so I'm not sure how to adjust that up for cold steeping.

If chocolate rye isn't immediately available as an organic grain then you could always toss some rye malt in the oven and run it up to a darker color.

true! If this recipe turns out well and 7 Bridges doesn't start carrying the organic chocolate rye I will try that next time. heck, I might just try that next time anyway.
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Offline petermmitchell

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Re: Rye Stout
« Reply #18 on: March 14, 2014, 09:50:07 AM »
For the cold steeping method, how much more dark grain would you use than if you just mashed with it?

Offline morticaixavier

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Re: Rye Stout
« Reply #19 on: March 14, 2014, 09:57:43 AM »
For the cold steeping method, how much more dark grain would you use than if you just mashed with it?

I have to look again but I'm pretty sure I doubled the amounts from when I brewed this recipe last time. I MEANT to double the amounts.
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Offline denny

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Re: Rye Stout
« Reply #20 on: March 14, 2014, 09:58:30 AM »
For the cold steeping method, how much more dark grain would you use than if you just mashed with it?

From Dr. George Fix...

The talk was in the NCHF at Napa in October. Those folks on the left coast really know how to do a beer festival!  The cold steeping procedure was designed to maximize the extraction of  desirable melanoidins, and at the same time minimize the extraction of  undesirable ones. The former are simple compounds which yield a fine malt taste. The undesirable ones come from more complicated structures. Polymers with sulfur compounds tend to have malt/vegetable tones. Others yield   cloying tones, which to my palate have an under fermented character. The highest level melanoidins can even have burnt characteristics.  The cold steeping procedure was developed by Mary Ann Gruber of Briess. My  version goes as follows.

             (i) One gallon of water per 3-4 lbs. of grains to be steeped is brought to a boil and held there for 5 mins.
             (ii) The water is cooled down to ambient, and the cracked grains are added.
             (iii) This mixture is left for 12-16 hrs. at ambient temperatures,  and then added to the brew kettle for the last 15-20 mins. of the boil.

Mary Ann has had good results by adding the steeped grains directly to the  fermenter without boiling, however I have not tried that variation of the             procedure.

 The upside of cold steeping is that it works. The downside is that it is very inefficient both with respect to extract and color. In my setup I am using 2-3 times the malt that would normally be used. As a consequence I  have been using it for "adjunct malts" such as black and crystal. I also am very happy with the use of Munich malts with this process when they are used as secondary malts.
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Offline goschman

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Re: Rye Stout
« Reply #21 on: March 16, 2014, 05:20:12 PM »
Sorry in advance for going a bit off topic...

Say I wanted to brew a black IPA and use the cold steeping method for the dark grains. I would need to  use more than if I was mashing them mainly because of poor color extraction? This would be good for me to know. I would hate to use my normal amount of dark grains and end up with a brown IPA...
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Online HoosierBrew

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Re: Rye Stout
« Reply #22 on: March 16, 2014, 05:26:23 PM »
When I used to cold steep I used ~ twice the roasted grains as when I mashed them with the rest of the grist. IIRC there are other 'cold steepers' here who do the same.
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Offline fmader

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Re: Rye Stout
« Reply #23 on: March 16, 2014, 07:05:37 PM »
Sorry in advance for going a bit off topic...

Say I wanted to brew a black IPA and use the cold steeping method for the dark grains. I would need to  use more than if I was mashing them mainly because of poor color extraction? This would be good for me to know. I would hate to use my normal amount of dark grains and end up with a brown IPA...

I just brewed a Black IPA a couple months ago that turned out fantastic. In this case, I did not cold steep. I had so much hop bitterness going on that the bitterness from the dark grains being mashed was nonexistent. I think I posted the whole recipe in a thread. But I mashed 14 oz of dehusked Carafa III and 4 oz of chocolate malt. It was a dandy.
Frank

Offline morticaixavier

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Re: Rye Stout
« Reply #24 on: March 16, 2014, 07:21:21 PM »
alright, I verified that the amount I have in the recipe is more or less twice what I had in the first iteration and I liked the level of roastiness in that so this should be a good test of how I like the cold steep character.
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Offline fmader

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Re: Rye Stout
« Reply #25 on: March 16, 2014, 07:36:24 PM »
alright, I verified that the amount I have in the recipe is more or less twice what I had in the first iteration and I liked the level of roastiness in that so this should be a good test of how I like the cold steep character.

Nice. When's this brew? I'd like to hear some feedback?
Frank

Offline morticaixavier

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Re: Rye Stout
« Reply #26 on: March 16, 2014, 07:40:04 PM »
alright, I verified that the amount I have in the recipe is more or less twice what I had in the first iteration and I liked the level of roastiness in that so this should be a good test of how I like the cold steep character.

Nice. When's this brew? I'd like to hear some feedback?

next weekend (good lord willin' and the creek don't rise!).

gonna get the starter going tonight. I only ordered one tubeof yeast and it's a low gravity ale but still. Gonna pitch the tube half and half into two 1 lite starters and then step them up into another liter on wednesday.
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Offline morticaixavier

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Re: Rye Stout
« Reply #27 on: March 22, 2014, 02:24:32 PM »
Well it's in the fridge chilling to pitching temps. Plenty black. I forgot yup start my steeo last night so I just did it first thing this morning and the resultant liquor was black as night with a nice level of roastiness. the braid came loose during the mash so I had to run most of it off into buckets, reach re attach the braid and put it all back in. ended up getting better efficiency than I expected but nothing out of line. Well post again in a couple weeks.
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