[denny]

I KNEW I bought that 3 pack of spray bottles for a reason. Thanks!

Jeff

Mix it with distilled water and it'll stay good for a year or so.

[Stevie]

I use Iodophor to sanitize starter equipment because it's easier for me to measure small amounts of it than StarSan.

I make 1-quart spray bottles of Star-San that come in really useful for this kind of thing.

So do I, but for some reason I always pull out the Iodophor.  Dunno why.

Old habits die hard.

[HoosierBrew]

Mix it with distilled water and it'll stay good for a year or so.

+1 to that. Distilled isn't cheap but it's worth the investment for Starsan - mine stays clear for a long time (upwards of a year) with good pH, at least as measured by strips.

[HoosierBrew]

I use Iodophor once a year to kill any bugs that have become resistant to StarSan.  I don't know if that can even happen or if temporarily switching sanitizers is an appropriate safeguard.

I do the same on roughly your time increment (1 - 1.5 yrs, or whenever) because I always heard it might be a good idea. But I'd love to hear some actual data on that. I read Sean's post about some beer spoiling organisms actually producing acid and whether acid based cleansers would therefore be effective on them. Anybody have any other info ?

[erockrph]

I use Iodophor once a year to kill any bugs that have become resistant to StarSan.  I don't know if that can even happen or if temporarily switching sanitizers is an appropriate safeguard.

I do the same on roughly your time increment (1 - 1.5 yrs, or whenever) because I always heard it might be a good idea. But I'd love to hear some actual data on that. I read Sean's post about some beer spoiling organisms actually producing acid and whether acid based cleansers would therefore be effective on them. Anybody have any other info ?

While it is true that Star San needs to below pH 3 to be effective, it is because the low pH is required for the detergent to be effective. The low pH may inhibit or kill many of the problem microbes, but that alone is not the primary mechanism of action in Star San.

[brewinhard]

Starsan for sanitizing carboys and plastic hoses/tubing/siphoning equipment and bottles.  For some weird reason, I use Iodophor to sanitize kegs. 

[HoosierBrew]

I use Iodophor once a year to kill any bugs that have become resistant to StarSan.  I don't know if that can even happen or if temporarily switching sanitizers is an appropriate safeguard.

I do the same on roughly your time increment (1 - 1.5 yrs, or whenever) because I always heard it might be a good idea. But I'd love to hear some actual data on that. I read Sean's post about some beer spoiling organisms actually producing acid and whether acid based cleansers would therefore be effective on them. Anybody have any other info ?

While it is true that Star San needs to below pH 3 to be effective, it is because the low pH is required for the detergent to be effective. The low pH may inhibit or kill many of the problem microbes, but that alone is not the primary mechanism of action in Star San.

Sorry, should've been more clear. I get all that about Starsan - I was looking for info on whether there is really anything concrete to the 'myth' of needing to change sanitizers (any sanitizers) periodically, to eradicate organisms that (in theory) could become 'resistant'.

[BrewArk]

I use Iodophor once a year to kill any bugs that have become resistant to StarSan.  I don't know if that can even happen or if temporarily switching sanitizers is an appropriate safeguard.

I do the same on roughly your time increment (1 - 1.5 yrs, or whenever) because I always heard it might be a good idea. But I'd love to hear some actual data on that. I read Sean's post about some beer spoiling organisms actually producing acid and whether acid based cleansers would therefore be effective on them. Anybody have any other info ?

While it is true that Star San needs to below pH 3 to be effective, it is because the low pH is required for the detergent to be effective. The low pH may inhibit or kill many of the problem microbes, but that alone is not the primary mechanism of action in Star San.

Sorry, should've been more clear. I get all that about Starsan - I was looking for info on whether there is really anything concrete to the 'myth' of needing to change sanitizers (any sanitizers) periodically, to eradicate organisms that (in theory) could become 'resistant'.

Short answer is no.  There's a huge difference between sanitizers and antibiotics.  Antibiotics work within a living organism and have to be efficacious without killing the host, so they have to be limited in their killing.  Sanitizers don't have those limits.  They are rinsed away (or diluted to the point they are harmless). 

[HoosierBrew]

Short answer is no.  There's a huge difference between sanitizers and antibiotics.  Antibiotics work within a living organism and have to be efficacious without killing the host, so they have to be limited in their killing.  Sanitizers don't have those limits.  They are rinsed away (or diluted to the point they are harmless). 

That had always been my feeling. But I'd heard that idea floated around here a few times (and other places as well), and being OCD about sanitation, I'd always wondered if there were some info I wasn't privy to. OTOH, I've brewed consistently clean beer for over 20 years, so that's gotta say something. Thanks !

[a10t2]

The idea isn't necessarily that microorganisms could mutate to become "resistant" in the same sense that they could to antibiotics - although given sufficient timescales I could actually see that being a concern. My main concern is instead that there are several common microorganisms which can survive the pH at which anionic sanitizers are typically used (2-3, roughly). As erock pointed out, there is also a surfactant component acting to "bind up" the little guys, but without a thorough rinse I don't feel comfortable relying on that to totally rid the tank of contaminants. I fully acknowledge that this is probably needless worrying.

[HoosierBrew]

And I'm pretty sure at the commercial level I'd be even more OCD !

[erockrph]

If anyone else is having a hard time falling asleep tonight, you can read this:

http://www.ift.org/~/media/Knowledge%20Center/Science%20Reports/Scientific%20Status%20Summaries/resistanceantimicrobials_1102.pdf

It does seem that there is some precedent for resistance being developed to various sanitizers. In particular they mention an experiment where a bacterial colony that was exposed to sublethal concentrations of Star San showed increased resistance upon further exposure to the recommended concentration.

There is enough circumstantial evidence here that I think I'll pick up a bottle of iodophor just to mix it up every once in a while. And definitely always mix your Star San to the recommended strength, or you may end up doing more harm than good.

[HoosierBrew]

If anyone else is having a hard time falling asleep tonight, you can read this:

http://www.ift.org/~/media/Knowledge%20Center/Science%20Reports/Scientific%20Status%20Summaries/resistanceantimicrobials_1102.pdf

It does seem that there is some precedent for resistance being developed to various sanitizers. In particular they mention an experiment where a bacterial colony that was exposed to sublethal concentrations of Star San showed increased resistance upon further exposure to the recommended concentration.

There is enough circumstantial evidence here that I think I'll pick up a bottle of iodophor just to mix it up every once in a while. And definitely always mix your Star San to the recommended strength, or you may end up doing more harm than good.

Good info. Guess I'll keep using iodophor now and then.

[brewsumore]

I KNEW I bought that 3 pack of spray bottles for a reason. Thanks!

Jeff

Mix it with distilled water and it'll stay good for a year or so.

I recently started keeping a carboy full of RO water (with a faucet/pump on it to dispense the water) on hand just for mixing spray bottles full of Star San.  Otherwise, with my tap water the Star San gets cloudy and then slimy.

I keep syringes among my brewing equipment, and as my spray bottle full holds 26 oz of water, I calculated the amount of Star San needed at 1.2 ml and just draw approximately that amount into a small syringe via the measuring vault of the Star San container.  I add that directly to the spray bottle full of water and give it a shake.

Thanks all for the reminders to use Iodophor every once in awhile.  I too still have plenty on hand after having made the switch to Star San.

[Kinetic]

RO water is 39 cents a gallon at the local grocery store and they let me fill my 5 gallon carboy with it.  It stays clear with starsan and has a pH of less than 2.5 for as long as I care to make it last which is rarely more than 3 months.

Iodophor is nice for bottling to eliminate foam inside and out.  Then I dump it in empty fermenters to kill bugs that aren't even there.