[dave.kline]

So my first stab at a lager was an Oktoberfest and it was really good, so I'm thinking about doing a Bock next.  I've come up with the following recipe which looks pretty good to me, but it is a little on the light side.  Any suggestions to darken it up?  Any bad choices here?

@ 78% efficiency
OG:  1.072

8 lb Weyermann Munich II
2.5 lb Weyermann Vienna
2.5 lb Weyermann Pilsner
0.5 lb Weyermann CaraMunich II

Low 20's IBU worth of Hallertau

WLP833

I was thinking maybe a small addition of Carafa Special?  I'm open to any ideas.

Thanks!

[erockrph]

I was literally just about to start almost the exact same thread. I keep my Märzen on tap a good chunk of the time, and I have a keg of doppelbock about ready to tap, but I'd like to brew something in the middle ground for the winter. I've never brewed a Bock, and there aren't a lot of commercial examples out there that I've found, either.

A lot of recipes I've seen call for a large amount of Dark Munich - is this style essentially a big Dunkel? Not to stir the pot, but I'm also wondering what everyone's thoughts are on CaraMunich in this style.

I still have some Red X Malt laying around, so I was thinking of giving it a go here. Here's my first pass at a recipe:

Title: Red Bock

Brew Method: BIAB
Style Name: Traditional Bock
Boil Time: 60 min
Batch Size: 3 gallons (fermentor volume)
Efficiency: 80% (brew house)

STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.070
Final Gravity: 1.018
ABV (standard): 6.9%
IBU (tinseth): 26.37
SRM (morey): 15.15

FERMENTABLES:
1 lb - German - Munich Dark (16.7%)
0.5 lb - German - Pilsner (8.3%)
4 oz - Belgian - Aromatic (4.2%)
4 oz - German - CaraMunich III (4.2%)
4 lb - Red X Malt (66.7%)

HOPS:
0.6 oz - Sterling, Type: Pellet, AA: 7.1, Use: Boil for 60 min, IBU: 26.37

MASH GUIDELINES:
1) Infusion, Temp: 153 F, Time: 75 min, Amount: 17 qt, Sacc Rest

YEAST:
Wyeast - Octoberfest Lager Blend 2633

[dave.kline]

@goschman, Munich II is around 9 degrees lovibond I believe.  Weyermann is what I have access to locally and I won't put Briess (my other option) in a German lager.

@erockrph, I'll be interested to see what kind of feedback you get as well.

[chumley]

I have brewed a couple of all dark Munich bocks, and have decided I just don't care for the taste of them.  I get this weird vegetal taste, and that was using Durst and Weyemann dark Munich. YMMV.

I plan to brew a bock this fall, using 100% Avangard light Munich malt, double decoction mash, with maybe a few ounces of Carafa II or III thown in when starting the sparge.  I will aim for around 1.066 OG, and a 20-25 IBU charge of Hallertauer for bittering.  And I will ferment it with the Ayinger yeast.

[majorvices]

My bock recipe is about 80% dark Munich (Best Munich II) and about 19.5% pils and .5% carafa special II or III for darkening (I'm not sure of the exact percentages, the carafa may be more but the ration between pils and munich is close enough.) You can certainly put some Cara Munich in there if you want, and your recipe looks good - I personally find it is unecessary for my tastes.

I also think you are wasting the Hallertuer and having simply less beer and more hop absorption. 20'ish IBUs of Magnum would be a better way to bitter this beer.

Mash for about 150 for 45-60 minutes then raise to 158 for 20 and sparge.

[dave.kline]

Sounds like I may have been on the right track with the Carafa addition.  Since I'll echo the comment that I prefer lighter munich malt, I had an idea, so I think I may give this a try:

4 lb Weyermann Munich I (29.2%)
4 lb Weyermann Munich II (29.2%)
2.5 lb Weyermann Vienna (18.2%)
2.5 lb Weyermann Pilsner (18.2%)
0.5 lb Weyermann CaraMunich II (3.6%)
0.2 lb Carafa I (1.5%)

I like the idea of switching to Magnum to use less hops.

This appears to get the SRM in the appropriate range.  Thoughts? 

Also, thoughts on Carafa vs Carafa Special (dehusked)?

Thanks!

[erockrph]

I'd use the Carafa special unless you intentionally want some roast character. The husk-on Carafa is in a similar ballpark as Black Malt.

[erockrph]

I have brewed a couple of all dark Munich bocks, and have decided I just don't care for the taste of them.  I get this weird vegetal taste, and that was using Durst and Weyemann dark Munich. YMMV.

As much as I love a good Dunkel, Dark Munich has a powerful, distinct flavor and aroma. I don't think I'd enjoy it as the dominant flavor in a Bock-sized brew.