Author Topic: What makes a Bock, a Bock?  (Read 2783 times)

Offline bonjour

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What makes a Bock, a Bock?
« on: November 11, 2009, 07:53:07 AM »
I thought I would start a discussion on Styles, so to start I ask,

What makes a Bock, a Bock?

from the BJCP website BJCP.org

Quote
5B. Traditional Bock
Aroma: Strong malt aroma, often with moderate amounts of rich melanoidins and/or toasty overtones. Virtually no hop aroma. Some alcohol may be noticeable. Clean. No diacetyl. Low to no fruity esters.

Appearance: Light copper to brown color, often with attractive garnet highlights. Lagering should provide good clarity despite the dark color. Large, creamy, persistent, off-white head.

Flavor: Complex maltiness is dominated by the rich flavors of Munich and Vienna malts, which contribute melanoidins and toasty flavors. Some caramel notes may be present from decoction mashing and a long boil. Hop bitterness is generally only high enough to support the malt flavors, allowing a bit of sweetness to linger into the finish. Well-attenuated, not cloying. Clean, with no esters or diacetyl. No hop flavor. No roasted or burnt character.

Mouthfeel: Medium to medium-full bodied. Moderate to moderately low carbonation. Some alcohol warmth may be found, but should never be hot. Smooth, without harshness or astringency.

Overall Impression: A dark, strong, malty lager beer.

Comments: Decoction mashing and long boiling plays an important part of flavor development, as it enhances the caramel and melanoidin flavor aspects of the malt. Any fruitiness is due to Munich and other specialty malts, not yeast-derived esters developed during fermentation.

History: Originated in the Northern German city of Einbeck, which was a brewing center and popular exporter in the days of the Hanseatic League (14th to 17th century). Recreated in Munich starting in the 17th century. The name “bock” is based on a corruption of the name “Einbeck” in the Bavarian dialect, and was thus only used after the beer came to Munich. “Bock” also means “billy-goat” in German, and is often used in logos and advertisements.

Ingredients: Munich and Vienna malts, rarely a tiny bit of dark roasted malts for color adjustment, never any non-malt adjuncts. Continental European hop varieties are used. Clean lager yeast. Water hardness can vary, although moderately carbonate water is typical of Munich.

Vital Statistics:  OG: 1.064 – 1.072 
IBUs: 20 – 27  FG: 1.013 – 1.019 
SRM: 14 – 22  ABV: 6.3 – 7.2% 

Commercial Examples: Einbecker Ur-Bock Dunkel, Pennsylvania Brewing St. Nick Bock, Aass Bock, Great Lakes Rockefeller Bock, Stegmaier Brewhouse Bock



But I again ask, what makes this style different from others.

Fred
Fred Bonjour
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Everything under 1.100 is a 'session' beer ;)

Offline matthew

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Re: What makes a Bock, a Bock?
« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2009, 08:11:35 AM »
Munich malt, munich malt and lots of it, and some munich malt too-German hops and only at th begining of th boil
and not much-German lager yeast- aging it for a long time(th hard part for me), tripple decoction.
I know you didnt ask how do we make it but all of the above sets a bock apart from a say dark or amber lager JMO
Matt
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Offline glitterbug

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Re: What makes a Bock, a Bock?
« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2009, 08:37:18 AM »
What makes a Bock, a Bock?

All you need to do is put a picture of a goat on the label  ;D
A witty saying proves nothing - Voltaire

Offline majorvices

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Re: What makes a Bock, a Bock?
« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2009, 08:56:27 AM »
Definitely Munich malt (and lager yeast). Unless you are talking about a Maibock and that is just technically a Helles brewed to Bock strength with, in some instances, some added specialty malts and a little more hops.
Keith Y.
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Offline bonjour

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Re: What makes a Bock, a Bock?
« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2009, 09:23:06 AM »
IMHO there are two components to what makes a style a style,

  • History, which includes traditional techniques (i.e. decoction) and location (think water chemistry)
  • Ingredients which lead to flavor.

anything else?
Fred Bonjour
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Everything under 1.100 is a 'session' beer ;)

Offline Thirsty_Monk

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Re: What makes a Bock, a Bock?
« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2009, 09:25:35 AM »
Na Zdravie

On Tap At The TapRoom:
Bohemian Pilsner
Bohemian Dark Lager
Smoked Bock
MaiBock
American Brown Ale
Marzen
Root beer

Offline denny

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Re: What makes a Bock, a Bock?
« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2009, 09:25:56 AM »
So, Fred and Matthew seem to be saying that a bock _must_ be decocted or it's not a bock.  To me, it's all in the glass.....if it tastes like what a bock should taste like, it's a bock no matter how it's made.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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Offline bonjour

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Re: What makes a Bock, a Bock?
« Reply #7 on: November 11, 2009, 09:32:13 AM »
No Denny, I'm not saying a Bock MUST be decocted to be a Bock.  I'm saying that historically Bock's were decocted and that process developed flavors that contributed to the style definition.  Ultimately it is a flavor determination that was originally derived from a decoction.  There are now other ways to emulate the contribution of a decoction which are argued about how accurately they capture the flavor contribution.

Fred
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Everything under 1.100 is a 'session' beer ;)

Offline matthew

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Re: What makes a Bock, a Bock?
« Reply #8 on: November 11, 2009, 09:44:09 AM »
The last beer I made was a Maibock and it didnt turn out to good, dont know what I did but it just
wasnt that great.As far as a Bock goes I guess I forgot to add that it needs to be a stronger lager
and I still monkey with th water by softing it a tiny bit, my water is a little to hard for any lagers
'sept for a Dort maybe and thats a big maybe but I'm not all that up to snuff with water and PH and
such. For all th trouble I would go thru to brew a Bock, mine never really are good enough.Deffinitly a
tuff style to brew.It has to have a good Munich malt profile for me more that anything else.


And yeah Denny it doesnt matter how I get th flavor as long as it's there
« Last Edit: November 11, 2009, 09:47:09 AM by matthew »
Well it hurts down here on Earth lord
It hurts down here on Earth
It hurts down here cause we're running out of beer
But we're all gonna die someday

Offline Thirsty_Monk

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Re: What makes a Bock, a Bock?
« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2009, 09:56:43 AM »

And yeah Denny it doesnt matter how I get th flavor as long as it's there
This statement reminds me that some Austrian Winemakers in 1990s were putting antifreeze to their wines just to get that exact flavor without expense of process.

They got the flavor all right...
   
Na Zdravie

On Tap At The TapRoom:
Bohemian Pilsner
Bohemian Dark Lager
Smoked Bock
MaiBock
American Brown Ale
Marzen
Root beer

Offline bonjour

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Re: What makes a Bock, a Bock?
« Reply #10 on: November 11, 2009, 10:02:28 AM »
putting antifreeze to their wines just to get that exact flavor without expense of process.

They got the flavor all right...
Fortunately these brewers wer limited to water, malt, hops, and yeast.

No matter what I'm not adding anti-freeze to any beer.
Fred Bonjour
Co-Chair Mashing in Michigan 2014 AHA Conference in Grand Rapids, Michigan
AHA Governing Committee; AHA Conference, Club Support & Web Subcommittees



Everything under 1.100 is a 'session' beer ;)

Offline Thirsty_Monk

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Re: What makes a Bock, a Bock?
« Reply #11 on: November 11, 2009, 10:05:07 AM »

No matter what I'm not adding anti-freeze to any beer.

Good plan :D
Na Zdravie

On Tap At The TapRoom:
Bohemian Pilsner
Bohemian Dark Lager
Smoked Bock
MaiBock
American Brown Ale
Marzen
Root beer

Offline matthew

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Re: What makes a Bock, a Bock?
« Reply #12 on: November 11, 2009, 10:15:51 AM »
I've used Melanoidin with good results but I still dont think it's th same but I may be tring to justify
all that trouble of a trip-decoct  ;)
Ani-freeze? surely you jest?
Well it hurts down here on Earth lord
It hurts down here on Earth
It hurts down here cause we're running out of beer
But we're all gonna die someday

Offline denny

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Re: What makes a Bock, a Bock?
« Reply #13 on: November 11, 2009, 10:42:34 AM »
Thanks for the clarifications, Matt and Fred.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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Offline bonjour

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Re: What makes a Bock, a Bock?
« Reply #14 on: November 11, 2009, 10:44:12 AM »
Aromatic works well too.
Fred Bonjour
Co-Chair Mashing in Michigan 2014 AHA Conference in Grand Rapids, Michigan
AHA Governing Committee; AHA Conference, Club Support & Web Subcommittees



Everything under 1.100 is a 'session' beer ;)