Author Topic: Lautering problems using Rye Malt  (Read 1748 times)

Offline wamille

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Lautering problems using Rye Malt
« on: December 08, 2014, 06:14:31 AM »
I work with a local craft beer brewery in South Korea on a beer that has about 8% rye malt in the grain bill.  They've had a helluva time lautering when using rye.  They've got ample access to rice hulls (go figure, we're in Korea), but for some reason, the lautering time takes many more hours than normal.  What do craft beer breweries do in the States that could help us complete the brew day more quickly?  Thanks in advance for any help/insights.  Bill

Offline majorvices

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Re: Lautering problems using Rye Malt
« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2014, 12:26:00 PM »
Maybe a beta glucan rest would help? Are you using a grant?

I used to use rye malt in a contract brew recipe and never had any problems with it. I am fortunate though to have a lauter tun that simply never gets stuck. Bullet proof.

Offline brewinhard

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Re: Lautering problems using Rye Malt
« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2014, 11:45:53 PM »
Possibly combine rice hulls addition with a mash-out step (168-170F) for 10-15 min. to help keep the runoff more soluble?

Offline Black Sands Brewery & Supply

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Re: Lautering problems using Rye Malt
« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2015, 06:57:45 PM »
8% rye doesn't seem like all that much to create this big of a problem for you. I have to ask how much rice hulls are you using? What size system are you using? What does the false bottom look like? When are you adding the rice hulls? What is the shape/design of your mash tun? How do you mash in? Grist case? Direct from the mill? Is the rye mixed in w/ the rest of the grist? Does the mast tun have rakes or do you mash in w/ a mash fork?

In my experience on a 15 bbl system we'd use about 20-30 lbs of rice hulls when using rye or wheat and don't have any problems. We'd add 5 lbs at a time mixing in over the course of mashing in. It helps to get a base layer of hulls on the bottom if possible. Our system also used a grant which wouldn't put stress on the mash bed. We didn't have rakes so all manual mixing of the grist.

I'd say use more rice hulls and add them more often not all at once...
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Offline Thirsty_Monk

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Re: Lautering problems using Rye Malt
« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2015, 02:00:23 AM »
Maybe a beta glucan rest would help? Are you using a grant?

I used to use rye malt in a contract brew recipe and never had any problems with it. I am fortunate though to have a lauter tun that simply never gets stuck. Bullet proof.
Major,

What temp is beta glucane rest at. I have rye IPA and always have hell if the time to latter it. It is about 15% rye.
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Offline Black Sands Brewery & Supply

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Re: Lautering problems using Rye Malt
« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2015, 03:09:17 AM »
Maybe a beta glucan rest would help? Are you using a grant?

I used to use rye malt in a contract brew recipe and never had any problems with it. I am fortunate though to have a lauter tun that simply never gets stuck. Bullet proof.
Major,

What temp is beta glucane rest at. I have rye IPA and always have hell if the time to latter it. It is about 15% rye.

i pulled this from more beers "advanced mashing techniques"

"Another issue in mashing is that of beta glucans. Beta glucans are gums that are products of the breakdown of the hemicellulosic cell walls. They are produced during the malting process under the action of the enzyme beta-glucanase. Beta-glucanase enzymes can survive the malting process but are rapidly deactivated above 122 °F (50 °C). They remain quite active at 104 °F (40 °C), and as a result a rest in the 104 °F (40 °C) range will help to dissolve the beta glucans. Beta-glucanase survives to a much higher degree in lightly kilned pale lager malts than in ale malts (2).

Beta glucans have an effect on wort viscosity. Higher levels left intact may lead to more-viscous wort and subsequently more difficult lautering. In general, more highly modified malt will have lower levels of beta glucans."
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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Lautering problems using Rye Malt
« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2015, 03:18:47 AM »
Yeah, a long Beta Glucan rest can help. Try 30-45 minutes to start.
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Offline Thirsty_Monk

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Re: Lautering problems using Rye Malt
« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2015, 03:41:54 AM »
Thanks for the advice. I do not think I can pull 104F to 152F step in my mash tun.
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Offline majorvices

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Re: Lautering problems using Rye Malt
« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2015, 10:55:53 AM »
Thanks for the advice. I do not think I can pull 104F to 152F step in my mash tun.

Me either. Next MT will be steam jacketed. All that said, a grant can help. I notice a lot more "gooey stuff" on the top of my mash bed when I drain now than I use a grant than before when I didn't and don't have any problems with a stuck sparge.

Offline boulderbrewer

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Re: Lautering problems using Rye Malt
« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2015, 02:40:05 PM »
Leos you could try some of this. I think you get stuff from BSG.

https://bsgcraftbrewing.com/bioglucanase-gb-2
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Offline Thirsty_Monk

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Re: Lautering problems using Rye Malt
« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2015, 02:56:01 PM »
Have you used that Marc? I am a little "skittish" on stuff like that.
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Offline boulderbrewer

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Re: Lautering problems using Rye Malt
« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2015, 09:53:00 PM »
Never have needed it as far as I know anyway. If I do I'll let you know how it works.
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Offline morticaixavier

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Re: Lautering problems using Rye Malt
« Reply #12 on: January 06, 2015, 10:15:01 PM »
The main problem with doing a glucan rest with rye is that the glucans are what gives the beer that lovely silkie mouthfeel when you get into higher % of rye in the grist. It doesn't help fly spargers but when I'm using lots of rye in a grist I just resign myself to stirring, vorlaufing, and starting the run off again. two or three times is the most it usually takes and even that I can reduce by scoreing the top of the grain bed with a knife.
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Offline Thirsty_Monk

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Lautering problems using Rye Malt
« Reply #13 on: January 07, 2015, 01:37:34 AM »
Never have needed it as far as I know anyway. If I do I'll let you know how it works.

Sounds good Marc. Next time I will try my usual mash 143F to 160F. We shall see.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2015, 01:40:09 AM by Thirsty_Monk »
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Offline Thirsty_Monk

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Re: Lautering problems using Rye Malt
« Reply #14 on: January 07, 2015, 01:39:46 AM »

The main problem with doing a glucan rest with rye is that the glucans are what gives the beer that lovely silkie mouthfeel when you get into higher % of rye in the grist. It doesn't help fly spargers but when I'm using lots of rye in a grist I just resign myself to stirring, vorlaufing, and starting the run off again. two or three times is the most it usually takes and even that I can reduce by scoreing the top of the grain bed with a knife.

Try to do it with 350lb of grain. Pretty good workout.
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