Author Topic: Belle Saison vs liquid saison yeasts  (Read 5693 times)

Offline homoeccentricus

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Belle Saison vs liquid saison yeasts
« on: December 11, 2014, 03:41:09 PM »
Is there anyone who has experience with both Belle Saison and the WY/WL saison yeasts? I hear very mixed opinions about the Belle Saison. Is there a way to make it shine?
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Offline Multifaceted

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Re: Belle Saison vs liquid saison yeasts
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2014, 05:26:58 PM »
I'll let you know in a week or two. I am brewing a Saison this weekend and will use Belle Saison for the first time. I had ordered WLP4007 from The Yeast Bay, but their shipping is delayed to traveling or something. No worries, will see how it works.

I've got mixed feedback about pitching rates. I plan to rehydrate one sachet for an OG of 1.054 (5gal), but according to their (Lallemand) recommended pitching rates, I'd need upwards of 20 g (two packets worth).

For that price I'd rather make a liquid starter.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2014, 05:40:07 PM by Multifaceted »

Offline dmtaylor

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Re: Belle Saison vs liquid saison yeasts
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2014, 05:55:48 PM »
One pack of Belle Saison should be plenty for 5 gallons.

I've never really heard any bad reviews for Belle Saison.  Everyone I've talked to seems to love it.  Personally I don't think I'll ever use anything else.  Yes, it's really THAT good.

Sorry I haven't used any of the liquid yeasts to compare to it.  A lot of people say it's very close to 3711.  Belle Saison always finishes bone dry close to 1.002 plus or minus a couple points... but it does take more than 3 weeks to get there in my experience.  Other people have reported faster results.  So, YMMV on the time it takes.  But regardless, it tastes GREAT.
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Offline erockrph

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Re: Belle Saison vs liquid saison yeasts
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2014, 06:15:57 PM »
One pack of Belle Saison should be plenty for 5 gallons.

I've never really heard any bad reviews for Belle Saison.  Everyone I've talked to seems to love it.  Personally I don't think I'll ever use anything else.  Yes, it's really THAT good.

Sorry I haven't used any of the liquid yeasts to compare to it.  A lot of people say it's very close to 3711.  Belle Saison always finishes bone dry close to 1.002 plus or minus a couple points... but it does take more than 3 weeks to get there in my experience.  Other people have reported faster results.  So, YMMV on the time it takes.  But regardless, it tastes GREAT.

Yeah, that sounds similar to 3711 to me. I just ordered a pack to try it for myself. If this tastes anything like 3711, then it will definitely become a "keep on hand at all times" yeast for me.
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Offline morticaixavier

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Re: Belle Saison vs liquid saison yeasts
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2014, 06:23:00 PM »
I've used several of the white labs saison yeasts and blends as well as belle. the belle is a great, hearty, and vibrant yeast. I used a freebie sachet I got at NHC 13 and carried around un-refridgerated for two weeks afterwards before using and it chewed up the ~1.050 saison I pitched it into.

The flavor profile for me was a bit one sided towards tart lemony character. Not a lot of spice. This could well be an issue of ferm temp and I only tried it that once. It did finish ~0.98 for me so it'll dry it out for sure. I'll try it again at somepoint for sure as I was happy with the result, just not as happy as when I use a blend of a saison yeast and two or three other belgian and wild yeasts.
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Offline homoeccentricus

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Re: Belle Saison vs liquid saison yeasts
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2014, 06:46:21 PM »
It's just that a friend of mine said that Belle Saison has lots of yeast flavors except for the right ones. :-P
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Offline homoeccentricus

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Re: Belle Saison vs liquid saison yeasts
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2014, 06:47:21 PM »
Maybe I have to give a bad review of my friend.
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Offline dmtaylor

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Re: Belle Saison vs liquid saison yeasts
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2014, 06:54:18 PM »
What's worked best for myself and a lot of people is pitching in the mid 60s and holding there for a day or two before raising up to the low to mid 70s.  Some people think a saison needs to be fermented in the 80s.  I would disagree... sounds like a recipe for headaches (literally).

From Belle Saison, I get lemon and black pepper, and what I like to call "that yummy Belgian character".  Tastes like a relatively clean but delicious saison to me.  I've tasted other saisons made with who knows what yeast that had much more of the pepper, tomato juice flavor, super dry, big alcohol that gave me headaches... meh.  Yeah, they're different and unique and interesting, to a point.  But personally I want something more easily quaffable while tasting saisony, and this yeast certainly does that beautifully.
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Offline Multifaceted

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Re: Belle Saison vs liquid saison yeasts
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2014, 06:59:09 PM »
One pack of Belle Saison should be plenty for 5 gallons.

I've never really heard any bad reviews for Belle Saison.  Everyone I've talked to seems to love it.  Personally I don't think I'll ever use anything else.  Yes, it's really THAT good.

That's what I've always done when using Nottingham, it's same cell count. I've always followed the proofing procedure on the back, but looking online from their website, there is some multi-step process of rehydration.

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Belle Saison vs liquid saison yeasts
« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2014, 07:29:13 PM »
I need to use Belle on its own. One of my favorite ways to make saison is to pitch 3724 (my favorite) and then pitch 3711 as the 3724 winds down (often too soon), for complexity and to help hit FG. So I used Belle once like this, and it did add a nice lemony tartness to go with the earthiness of 3724, and of course got FG down to ~ 1.002. I think I'll use it alone in the next one. Saison's another fun beer to experiment with.
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Offline erockrph

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Re: Belle Saison vs liquid saison yeasts
« Reply #10 on: December 11, 2014, 08:15:10 PM »
What's worked best for myself and a lot of people is pitching in the mid 60s and holding there for a day or two before raising up to the low to mid 70s.  Some people think a saison needs to be fermented in the 80s.  I would disagree... sounds like a recipe for headaches (literally).

From Belle Saison, I get lemon and black pepper, and what I like to call "that yummy Belgian character".  Tastes like a relatively clean but delicious saison to me.  I've tasted other saisons made with who knows what yeast that had much more of the pepper, tomato juice flavor, super dry, big alcohol that gave me headaches... meh.  Yeah, they're different and unique and interesting, to a point.  But personally I want something more easily quaffable while tasting saisony, and this yeast certainly does that beautifully.
Jeez, Dave you're making my mouth water. It looks like I'm brewing some Saison as soon as my packet comes in. I'm going to need to try out my new Wai-iti hops anyways...
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Offline unclebrazzie

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Re: Belle Saison vs liquid saison yeasts
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2014, 09:09:12 AM »
It's just that a friend of mine said that Belle Saison has lots of yeast flavors except for the right ones. :-P

Represent!

I've used BS thrice now. First was a sour wort saison. Second was a Maris Otter/Summer SMaSH. Third is a quince saison currently in secondary. The latter two were fermented at room temp (20°C or approc 68°F) without temp control. The first was fermented warmer, at 25°C - 77°F, also without temp control. All very loosely and casually brewed, in true saison spirit.

All three displayed an in-your-face level of yeastiness which was decidedly un-saisonesque but hard to describe. No pepper, no lemon. Certainly not clean, nor very dry.
The SMaSH in particular ended up tremendously yeasty, with the BS completely overpowering the hops. Some people thought it tasted "like an abbey beer" which says nothing other than "I don't know much about beer" and "this yeast does NOT taste like saison yeast in this beer".

I don't mind the level of yeastiness itself, but the yeast flavours I got from BS just happen to be flavours I don't much like, nor associate with saison at all.

That being said: there is no such thing as a typical saison-profile, so I'm not overly concerned. I just don't get that warm fuzzy feeling of Belle Saison love.
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Offline dmtaylor

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Re: Belle Saison vs liquid saison yeasts
« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2014, 01:28:34 PM »
How much time did you give the primary fermentation?  If anything less than 3.5 weeks, then yeah, I'd expect some yeastiness.  It took 3.5 weeks for my saison to clear.  After that, crystal clarity with no yeastiness.
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Offline narvin

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Re: Belle Saison vs liquid saison yeasts
« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2014, 04:44:08 PM »

All three displayed an in-your-face level of yeastiness which was decidedly un-saisonesque but hard to describe.

I agree with this... I used Belle Saison only once but there was something ever-so-slightly off about the flavor.  I used about 1.5 packs for 10 gallons I think (according to the g/L instructions on the pack, or their website), pitched at 66, and let rise to low to mid 70s by day 5.

 Disclaimer: this was the free package from NHC, so it didn't have the best handling, but for dry yeast that shouldn't be as important.  I'd still suggest you try it and see if you like it.
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Re: Belle Saison vs liquid saison yeasts
« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2014, 05:44:15 PM »
I've used belle saison several times. It's great, no complaints.  Very spicy and a very high attenuator. I've used almost all the commercially available saison yeasts and belle stands up to all of them.

Use caution though, seems it may continue to ferment very slowly even at cold temps. Be sure attenuation us completely achieved before bottling.