Author Topic: Hibiscus - ginger saison  (Read 2575 times)

Offline unclebrazzie

  • Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 318
  • Edegem - Belgium
Re: Hibiscus - ginger saison
« Reply #15 on: May 04, 2015, 09:38:48 AM »
Update. Because honesty compels, dammit.

Beer's fully carbed now and I had a taste the other day.

Two things.

Some of the bottles have a s***load of debris in them. First time that's ever happened to me, and I put it down to
 a) ginger pulp
 b) orange zest
 c) which I should have made sure would not end up in the bottling bucket

Most bottles are unaffected so yay.

However...ginger contains a lot of essential oils, it seems. Plus, it acts as a degreasing agent (which si why you'll find it accompanying fatty fish and oriental dishes so often).
In other words: it kills any head retention of the beer, making my beer look like Marie Antoinette in many ways: red and headless. But, thankfully, not dead.

So I've a carbed (almost spritzy) red saison with plenty of ginger flavours (but none of the heat). And no head.
I think I'll call it a radler to avoid the disappointment that often accompanies preconceptional expectation.

That being said, this was a fun beer to brew, and it's taught me a few things about adding ingredients and blending.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2016, 10:19:20 AM by unclebrazzie »
All truth is fiction.
--Don Quichote

Offline unclebrazzie

  • Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 318
  • Edegem - Belgium
Re: Hibiscus - ginger saison
« Reply #16 on: May 29, 2015, 09:12:43 AM »
More updates: this beer got me Honourable Mentions at the Leuven Innovation Beer Festival last weekend.
Jury notes are due someday soon, I was told, but I talked to a couple of brewer-jurymen and the general consensus seemed to be that it was definitely the most innovative beer of the competition, but didn't take prizes because of balance issues. I can relate.

That being said: I've not yet come across anyone who said they didn't like it. No one's going for seconds, but overall, whoever gets a taste seems to be in favour of the whole idea.

I think it needs a better hibiscus/ginger balance. Now, all the hibiscus seems to do is contribute flavour and thin the body, with the ginger hogging all the limelight. I'm wondering if maybe Belle Saison wouldn't be better for this type of brew; I think it's fruitier than 3711. OTOH, I think Belle Saison needs a LOT of time to mellow out. Young and raw, I think it's pretty vile. 3711 seems to be more forgiving to being consumed young but in this beer, maybe it's too much of a distraction.

Definitely going back to this recipe at a later time.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2015, 10:14:09 AM by unclebrazzie »
All truth is fiction.
--Don Quichote

Offline HoosierBrew

  • I must live here
  • **********
  • Posts: 13031
  • Indianapolis,IN
Re: Hibiscus - ginger saison
« Reply #17 on: May 29, 2015, 12:03:16 PM »
More updates: this beer got me Honourable Mentions at the Leuven Innovation Beer Festival last weekend.
Jury notes are due someday soon, I was told, but I talked to a couple of brewer-jurymen and the general consensus seemed to be that it was definitely the most innovative beer of the competition, but didn't take prizes because of balance issues. I can relate.

That being said: I've not yet come across anyone who said they didn't like it. No one's going for seconds, but overall, whoever gets a taste seems to be in favour of the whole idea.

I think it needs a better hibiscus/ginger balance. Now, all the hibiscus seems to do is contribute flavour and thin the body, with the ginger hogging all the limelight. I'm wondering if maybe Belle Saison wouldn't be better for this type of brew; I think it's fruitier than 3711. OTOH, I think Belle Saison needs a LOT of time to mellow out. Young and raw, I think it's pretty vile. 3711 seems to be more forgiving to being consumed young but in this beer, maybe it's too much of a distraction.

Definitely going back to this recipe at a later time.

Sounds like you did a nice job ! Before making other changes I would just back off on the ginger a bit, since it tended to dominate.
Jon H.

Offline unclebrazzie

  • Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 318
  • Edegem - Belgium
Re: Hibiscus - ginger saison
« Reply #18 on: May 29, 2015, 12:09:11 PM »
Before making other changes I would just back off on the ginger a bit, since it tended to dominate.

Thing is, I think it could use even more ginger, provided there's something to prop it up. The ginger provides a soda-drink character which is quite refreshing, but perhaps not complex enough to make the beer really shine. More Hibiscus would provide more zip, more tartness, which would freshen up the ginger. Also, the ginger isn't hot, not the way eating a piece of ginger is. Perhaps I should have used candied ginger after all...

I think the balancing act here is not so much one of toning down, but more of getting percentages right. The idea that the beer tastes like half-beer-half-ginger-soda is, I think, what set it apart.
All truth is fiction.
--Don Quichote

Offline HoosierBrew

  • I must live here
  • **********
  • Posts: 13031
  • Indianapolis,IN
Re: Hibiscus - ginger saison
« Reply #19 on: May 29, 2015, 12:10:57 PM »
Before making other changes I would just back off on the ginger a bit, since it tended to dominate.

Thing is, I think it could use even more ginger, provided there's something to prop it up. The ginger provides a soda-drink character which is quite refreshing, but perhaps not complex enough to make the beer really shine. More Hibiscus would provide more zip, more tartness, which would freshen up the ginger. Also, the ginger isn't hot, not the way eating a piece of ginger is. Perhaps I should have used candied ginger after all...

I think the balancing act here is not so much one of toning down, but more of getting percentages right. The idea that the beer tastes like half-beer-half-ginger-soda is, I think, what set it apart.

Gotcha. Yeah, hibiscus definitely brings a nice tartness. Nice color, too.
Jon H.