[IMperry9]

Hey guys I have been teaching my friend to brew beer because he has been wanting to learn he has the basics down and even wanted to put together a recipe. After a couple hours of we have created one very unique recipe let me know what you think. Keep in mind that this seems very unorthodox but keep an open mind. The recipe we are going for is a Smoked Black Saison because no beer fit the description of what he wanted.

Grain Bill:
- 7.5lbs Vienna Malt (4L)
- 2.5lbs Rye Malt
- 1.5lbs Cherrywood Smoked Malt
- 7.5oz Dehusked Carafa I (Added for color)

Hops:
-.5oz Chinook-60min
-.5oz Chinook-10min
~30IBU's
Yeast: WLP565 Saison I Yeast
~73% Attenuation

Stats:
OG:1.057
FG:1.016
ABV:5.3%
SRM:25.26
EFF:70%

Cheers and thanks for any feedback
EDIT: I meant 7.5lbs not 10lbs of Vienna

[denny]

What's your goal?  What do you want the finished beer to taste like?  I prefer to start there rather than just putting a bunch of ingredients together and waiting ti see how it turns out.

[Iliff Ave]

How strong of a roast character do you want? You could always use less carafa III to get to the same color rating depending on your goal. I don't care for smoked beers so I cannot comment on that portion.

I recently had a black saison that was good but also kind of pointless. It pretty much tasted like a standard saison and I would have had no idea it was black in color if tasting blind folded. In my opinion, if you are going to make a 'black' version of a traditionally lighter beer it should at least be noticeable in the flavor of the final product.

[IMperry9]

The flavor that my friend is looking for as I understood was something with a distinct spiciness so my first thought was a saison. He also wanted it to have a smoky undertone and flavor so we decided that the Cherrywood malt would give a sweet smokiness to compliment the spiciness from the yeast. The dark color was just something to make it truly unique but it will probably get dropped. Overall a smoky, spicy full flavored beer is what he wants.

[morticaixavier]

I think it highly unlikely that it will stop at 73% attentuation with that yeast. Saisons dry out even without sugar. that said, and above comments about why black... but if you want it black make it black. I would use the darker carafa in lower quantity though.

[Iliff Ave]

If you want to keep it dark, you might be able to achieve so smokiness from roasted barley or another dark malt. Look into the smoked malt. I believe there are multiple threads around here related to the different types and best usage.

[kramerog]

I wonder if the smoky phenolics will combine well with spicy phenolics.  Seems like a lot of phenolics.    My gut tells me to cut back on the smoked malt to a 1/2 lb, if you follow goschman's advice, shoot for the low end of any usage recommendations.

Belgian wit yeast also has a lot of spiciness (from phenolics).

[HoosierBrew]

I wonder if the smoky phenolics will combine well with spicy phenolics.  Seems like a lot of phenolics. 

That was my thought, too.  Belgian beers and rauchbier well work individually, but I don't know that combining both types of phenols makes for a good beer.  I could be wrong. I'll be curious to see how it comes out.

[Iliff Ave]

Along with the prior comments it might be wise to start with a pretty conservative batch and adjust up for future batches if needed

[HoosierBrew]

Of course the yeast derived phenols could be held in check by not fermenting too warm. That would be a good start.


EDIT - Like say, holding 64F for 48-72 hours, then ramping.

[pete b]

This is a beer I wouldn't make myself but glad someone else is just because home brewing is fun like that and I would like to hear how it turns out. Maybe smoky and spicy will complement each other, maybe not.

[morticaixavier]

Smokey and spicy should go very will together. Think barbque(the kind with sauce) or smoked chili peppers. Black pepper bacon for that matter.

[Footballandhops]

That is a small amount of smoked malt from what I've been taught...Iirc you should shoot for about %20 smoked malt minimum if you want the smoke flavor to come out and not fade with a bit of aging

Also as stated above...Belgian Wit yeast will add a spicy touch....I have only noted more fruity flavors from saison yeast

[curtism1234]

I worry there's too much going on. You have a funky yeast, with an abrasive piney hop, with smoke, and a little roast.

Perhaps do a neutral yeast or a neutral hop with a French Saison yeast?

What about doing a black rye smoked IPA??? The rye is spicy

[majorvices]

I worry there's too much going on. You have a funky yeast, with an abrasive piney hop, with smoke, and a little roast.

Perhaps do a neutral yeast or a neutral hop with a French Saison yeast?

What about doing a black rye smoked IPA??? The rye is spicy

My thoughts exactly. That doesn't mean you shouldn't brew it though. Just keep in mind that it usually works better to highlight one or two flavors working in concert as opposed to having several strong flavors that might clash together.