Author Topic: Question about Restrictions of brewery location  (Read 1671 times)

Offline tonyp

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Question about Restrictions of brewery location
« on: June 12, 2015, 04:30:49 AM »
From the TTB Website

Quote
Subpart C—Location and Use of Brewery

§25.21   Restrictions on location.
A brewery may not be established or operated in any dwelling house or on board any vessel or boat, or in any building or on any premises where the revenue will be jeopardized or the effective administration of this part will be hindered.

(Sec. 201, Pub. L. 85-859, 72 Stat. 1389, as amended (26 U.S.C. 5402))

My question is about the bold part.

What kind of locations would fall under the "jeopardized" description? What would jeopardize revenue?

By "effective administration…hindered" are they talking about agents having easy access to the location?
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Offline Slowbrew

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Re: Question about Restrictions of brewery location
« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2015, 11:28:13 AM »
IA(definately)NAL but that would be my assumption.  The TTB is all about collecting taxes.  Opening a brewery in someplace mobile or inaccessible would be problematic for them.

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Offline reverseapachemaster

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Re: Question about Restrictions of brewery location
« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2015, 02:12:33 PM »
The TTB may have internal documentation for the licensing agents for examples of what they will strike under that regulatory provision but it is most likely a "know it when they see it" issue. That leaves open room for the TTB to shut down locations reasonably calculated to thwart the administration of the FAA and IRC but it also leaves open room for you to make a compelling rebuttal why a particular location should be acceptable.
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Offline wv_brewer

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Re: Question about Restrictions of brewery location
« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2015, 10:39:07 AM »
Interestingly, there was a brewery in my town that was established and operated out of the owner's home (dwelling house).  So, perhaps these regulations have been relaxed somewhat.


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Offline Jimmy K

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Re: Question about Restrictions of brewery location
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2015, 11:33:25 AM »
I think mostly it means the brewery space must be completely separate and the space can't be shared with some other use. I've heard you can open a brewery at your house if it's in a separate outbuilding, or at least a garage separated by a locked door. This probably depends on your local inspector, not to mention local regulations. State and zoning laws are often more restrictive.
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Offline micsager

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Re: Question about Restrictions of brewery location
« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2015, 04:43:50 PM »
I think mostly it means the brewery space must be completely separate and the space can't be shared with some other use. I've heard you can open a brewery at your house if it's in a separate outbuilding, or at least a garage separated by a locked door. This probably depends on your local inspector, not to mention local regulations. State and zoning laws are often more restrictive.

Our brewery is in a separate building on our residential property.  We had no problem at all getting a Brewer's Notice. (federal license)  During our post-approval inspection by a TTB investigator, he was mostly concerned about how we measure our beer for tax paying purposes, and that all the doors, windows and such could be locked. (I'm guessing that the "effective administration" part) The first thing he said after introducing himself was "I am here to protect the revenue of the US Government."  Kind of says it all.  Although he also wanted us to get receipts from the pig farmer who picks up our spent grain.  I asked him for a regulatory citation for that requirement, and he couldn't do such. 

Another person in town is opening a cidery in his home.  The feds forced him to remove the door between the garage and the dwelling space. 

Offline Thirsty_Monk

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Re: Question about Restrictions of brewery location
« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2015, 01:23:01 AM »

I think mostly it means the brewery space must be completely separate and the space can't be shared with some other use. I've heard you can open a brewery at your house if it's in a separate outbuilding, or at least a garage separated by a locked door. This probably depends on your local inspector, not to mention local regulations. State and zoning laws are often more restrictive.

Our brewery is in a separate building on our residential property.  We had no problem at all getting a Brewer's Notice. (federal license)  During our post-approval inspection by a TTB investigator, he was mostly concerned about how we measure our beer for tax paying purposes, and that all the doors, windows and such could be locked. (I'm guessing that the "effective administration" part) The first thing he said after introducing himself was "I am here to protect the revenue of the US Government."  Kind of says it all.  Although he also wanted us to get receipts from the pig farmer who picks up our spent grain.  I asked him for a regulatory citation for that requirement, and he couldn't do such. 

Another person in town is opening a cidery in his home.  The feds forced him to remove the door between the garage and the dwelling space.

You could have brewery int the basement but you can not have direct access thru the house. You would have to have outside access.

You can not have brewery in the boat or trailer. It has to have physical location.

As far as spend grain is concerned. On one of the TTB form we file how much hops and grain we use per the period. This is quite silly to my opinion because if I brew higher gravity beers in winter and smaller gravity in the summer, there would be significant difference per BBL of beer. The same goes for hops.
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Offline a10t2

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Re: Question about Restrictions of brewery location
« Reply #7 on: July 02, 2015, 01:58:09 AM »
As far as spend grain is concerned. On one of the TTB form we file how much hops and grain we use per the period. This is quite silly to my opinion because if I brew higher gravity beers in winter and smaller gravity in the summer, there would be significant difference per BBL of beer. The same goes for hops.

I worry that one of these days they're going to audit me for making session beers.
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Offline boulderbrewer

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Re: Question about Restrictions of brewery location
« Reply #8 on: July 03, 2015, 12:59:53 PM »
As far as spend grain is concerned. On one of the TTB form we file how much hops and grain we use per the period. This is quite silly to my opinion because if I brew higher gravity beers in winter and smaller gravity in the summer, there would be significant difference per BBL of beer. The same goes for hops.

I worry that one of these days they're going to audit me for making session beers.

The new (2015) brewers report form doesn't require that any more.

I agree it was a pain to count all the grain and hops.
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Offline Thirsty_Monk

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Re: Question about Restrictions of brewery location
« Reply #9 on: July 04, 2015, 03:25:29 AM »
Have a link to new report? I am still using the old report.
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Offline boulderbrewer

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Re: Question about Restrictions of brewery location
« Reply #10 on: July 06, 2015, 02:32:07 PM »
http://www.ttb.gov/forms/f51309.pdf 

I would suggest signing up for Pay.gov so you can fill and file online. It even tells you when the numbers don't add up for the columns.  You can file and pay your excise tax online there also. Huge time saver.  8)
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