Author Topic: Saison w/ fruit - hop suggestions?  (Read 1186 times)

Offline JT

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Saison w/ fruit - hop suggestions?
« on: July 09, 2015, 10:26:23 PM »
In Jim's saison thread Ynot mentioned a saison with blackberries.  I have to give this a go, but I'm newer to the fruit and microbe game.  I was thinking basic on the grain bill: 90% pils and 10% wheat malt.  OG 1.053 or so.  I've got a 1 liter starter of 3724 in the fridge ready to go. 
That leaves: hops!  I'm going to ferment this with 3724 initially then rack on top of about 5 pounds of blackberries & french oak after the 3724 is finished.  I have a vial of B Lambicus that needs to be used, so that is going in at this point as well.  What hops will work with this beer?  Saaz?  Hallertauer?  Target IBUs?  Dry hop? 
Suggestions on any of the above are welcome - thanks in advance!

Online klickitat jim

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Re: Saison w/ fruit - hop suggestions?
« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2015, 10:46:14 PM »
No expert, but I would not worry much about bittering. Dry plus bitter kinda doesnt work for me. So maybe a half ounce of magnum at 60. Then I'd go with something that will compliment the berries in whirlpool. Fruity or herbal but not piney or citrus. Brett is going to mutate the flavors anyway, so I wouldn't go hog wild.

Offline brewinhard

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Re: Saison w/ fruit - hop suggestions?
« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2015, 10:54:54 PM »
Brett L. won't necessarily make your beer sour.  I do prefer WY Brett L. vs WL Brett L.  The WY strain lends a nice tart cherry note to the beer while the WL strain is more horsey, goaty, and sweaty/slightly smokey (more traditional farmyard brett). 

As per IBU's, I probably wouldn't go over 20 based on your grain bill.  Maybe even 15 if you really want the fruit to shine through.  As per hop selection, I agree with Jim.  Something earthy/spicey/floral would pair nicely with the fruit and saison yeast.  Think EKG, Willamette, Saaz, Hallertau, etc. 

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Saison w/ fruit - hop suggestions?
« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2015, 11:03:21 PM »
I'd keep IBUs in check for sure - I agree to stay @ 30 or less. Just like in standard saison, noble type varieties work well (Saaz, Hallertau, Styrian), but some late or dry fruity hops could be interesting too, depending on what you're after. Mosaic has a berry like quality to me, so (given the blackberries) I could see a small amount late in boil or dry hopped as an interesting accent to the fruit. Sounds like a great beer to me.
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Offline chumley

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Re: Saison w/ fruit - hop suggestions?
« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2015, 11:05:09 PM »
....and don't forget Styrian Goldings.  I buy a pound of this variety every year, mainly for Belgians.

Offline JT

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Re: Saison w/ fruit - hop suggestions?
« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2015, 11:06:01 PM »
No expert, but I would not worry much about bittering. Dry plus bitter kinda doesnt work for me. So maybe a half ounce of magnum at 60. Then I'd go with something that will compliment the berries in whirlpool. Fruity or herbal but not piney or citrus. Brett is going to mutate the flavors anyway, so I wouldn't go hog wild.
Thanks Jim!  Kinda what I was thinking too, my Berliner Weiss didn't have much hops at all and they weren't missed with the sour cherries flavor shining through - but that was a sour and this isn't so I was looking for some confirmation.  I definitely don't want to mute the blackberries so I'll go easy.  I have US Fuggle in the freezer and that sounds like a good fit for the whirlpool. 

Offline JT

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Re: Saison w/ fruit - hop suggestions?
« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2015, 11:11:08 PM »
Thanks all - right now the plan is .4 oz US Magnum FWH (19 IBU calc).  1 oz US Fuggle in the whirlpool @ 175.  I'm not looking for a sour with this one or I'd cut the IBUs even further. 

Online klickitat jim

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Re: Saison w/ fruit - hop suggestions?
« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2015, 12:09:34 AM »
Sounds about perfect to me. You might even dry hop a gallon just to compare. When it's all done and bottled and carbed, try one fresh and take thorough tasting notes. Then try one at a year and compare. Would be interesting to see what the Brett does to it over time.

Offline reverseapachemaster

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Re: Saison w/ fruit - hop suggestions?
« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2015, 03:21:17 PM »
....and don't forget Styrian Goldings.  I buy a pound of this variety every year, mainly for Belgians.

The other Slovenian hops also play nicely with Belgian styles. I'm really fond of Aurora.
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Offline JT

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Re: Saison w/ fruit - hop suggestions?
« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2015, 08:32:12 PM »
Normally I would mash a saison low to increase fermentability.  With the Brett, should I mash higher to provide more food for those critters? 

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Offline kmccaf

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Re: Saison w/ fruit - hop suggestions?
« Reply #10 on: July 11, 2015, 09:08:14 PM »
Normally I would mash a saison low to increase fermentability.  With the Brett, should I mash higher to provide more food for those critters? 

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I don't think so. Even with a low finishing Gravity, I get plenty of character from the Brett.
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Offline JT

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Re: Saison w/ fruit - hop suggestions?
« Reply #11 on: July 11, 2015, 09:13:15 PM »
Thanks, plus they still have the blackberries to munch on.  I'm sure they'll be just fine. 

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Offline JT

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Re: Saison w/ fruit - hop suggestions?
« Reply #12 on: July 12, 2015, 10:18:00 PM »
Pretty solid brew day.  This carboy is sitting at 65° in a 68° basement.  My instinct is to pull my Janet's Brown Ale out of the temp chamber and put the saison in for a few days.  What say the masses?  Does 3724 need to be controlled for a few days or just let her rip?  I do have a heat wrap on it so I can ensure the temp never slides backward, but right now I'm not applying any heat. 

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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Saison w/ fruit - hop suggestions?
« Reply #13 on: July 12, 2015, 10:31:10 PM »
I like to keep 3724 in the mid/upper 60s for 2-3 days then let er rip.
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Offline JT

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Re: Saison w/ fruit - hop suggestions?
« Reply #14 on: July 12, 2015, 10:35:54 PM »
I like to keep 3724 in the mid/upper 60s for 2-3 days then let er rip.
Thanks!  I was reading back through Jim's thread and there was already a bunch of knowledge dropped there from a lot of folks (sorry to duplicate the question).  I'll be moving the Janet's Brown Ale out of the temp chamber - it's been in there 72 hours already so it should be fine. 


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