Author Topic: Help dialing in a Saison recipe  (Read 1185 times)

Offline ThickMug

  • 1st Kit
  • *
  • Posts: 12
    • View Profile
Help dialing in a Saison recipe
« on: September 04, 2015, 08:02:07 PM »
This is my first post ever here. I'm a beginner at all-grain brewing, although I've been enjoying various styles for decades. I really enjoy Saison beers, and would like to work up a good one. If anyone cares to give me some feedback, many thanks in advance!

I have a couple of specific questions, but *please,* by all means, if you think of something I'm missing, let me know.

1. Is 3 lbs wheat too much?
2. Is 2 lbs Belgian Munich too much?
3. The brewer's friend program says my expected FG is 1.010, but I thought these Saison yeasts really dried out to the low singles? I'm using Belle Saison.

HOME BREW RECIPE:
Title: Skipjack Saison 2

Brew Method: All Grain
Style Name: Saison
Boil Time: 60 min
Batch Size: 5.5 gallons (fermentor volume)
Boil Size: 7 gallons
Boil Gravity: 1.043
Efficiency: 68% (brew house)

STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.054
Final Gravity: 1.010
ABV (standard): 5.78%
IBU (tinseth): 25.91
SRM (morey): 6.71

FERMENTABLES:
5 lb - Belgian - Pilsner (45.2%)
3 lb - American - Wheat (27.1%)
2 lb - Belgian - Munich (18.1%)
1 lb - Honey (9%)
1 oz - American - Chocolate (0.6%)

HOPS:
1 oz - US Tettnang, Type: Pellet, AA: 5, Use: Boil for 45 min, IBU: 16.95
1 oz - German Tettnang, Type: Pellet, AA: 2.6, Use: Boil for 15 min, IBU: 4.76
1 oz - East Kent Goldings, Type: Pellet, AA: 5.7, Use: Boil for 5 min, IBU: 4.2

MASH GUIDELINES:
1) Infusion, Temp: 144 F, Time: 30 min, Amount: 10 qt, Beta amylase rest
2) Infusion, Temp: 152 F, Time: 30 min, Amount: 5.3 qt, alpha Rest
3) Sparge, Temp: 170 F, Time: 15 min, Amount: 8 qt, Batch Sparge
Starting Mash Thickness: 1.25 qt/lb

YEAST:
Danstar - Belle Saison Yeast
Starter: Yes
Form: Dry
Attenuation (avg): 80%
Flocculation: Low
Optimum Temp: 63 - 75 F
Fermentation Temp: 70 F
Pitch Rate: 0.75 (M cells / ml / deg P)

NOTES:
target .49

Add honey at 5

Primary 3 weeks pitching at 68, rising to low 80s, rack to keg and store for up to 3 months at low 70s.

Offline 69franx

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 3129
  • Bloatarian Brewing League
    • View Profile
Re: Help dialing in a Saison recipe
« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2015, 08:05:01 PM »
I can tell you that my last 2 saisons dried out very low: Belle Saison to 1.003 and 3724/3711 combo down to 1.002, both started at 1.05
edit to add: one was 75% Pilsner, 20% Munich II, and 5% Wheat; the other was 90% Pilsner and 10% Munich II;
I have not tried either yet as they are both still conditioning, but samples were delicious!. Thanks go out to HoosierBrew and AmandaK, as I got those grist %s from their recipes. This is the second time I brewed with Amanda's 90/10 mix, first batch was great but did not finish as low. Hopefully this batch will be better as well as drier
« Last Edit: September 04, 2015, 08:10:02 PM by 69franx »
Frank L.
Fermenting:
Conditioning:
In keg: Märzen
In Bottles:  
In the works:

Offline ThickMug

  • 1st Kit
  • *
  • Posts: 12
    • View Profile
Re: Help dialing in a Saison recipe
« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2015, 08:24:13 PM »
I can tell you that my last 2 saisons dried out very low: Belle Saison to 1.003 and 3724/3711 combo down to 1.002, both started at 1.05
edit to add: one was 75% Pilsner, 20% Munich II, and 5% Wheat; the other was 90% Pilsner and 10% Munich II;
I have not tried either yet as they are both still conditioning, but samples were delicious!. Thanks go out to HoosierBrew and AmandaK, as I got those grist %s from their recipes. This is the second time I brewed with Amanda's 90/10 mix, first batch was great but did not finish as low. Hopefully this batch will be better as well as drier

That's good to know, about those percentages. The wheat is much lower than what I have in my recipe. Maybe I should modify that.

Offline 69franx

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 3129
  • Bloatarian Brewing League
    • View Profile
Re: Help dialing in a Saison recipe
« Reply #3 on: September 04, 2015, 08:28:18 PM »
Well, I am new enough to not be able to really speak to that level of wheat. These are just my second and third saisons. You will likely get a ton of other feedback from others who have a lot more saison, and recipe creation itself under their belts. Have fun with it
Frank L.
Fermenting:
Conditioning:
In keg: Märzen
In Bottles:  
In the works:

Offline ThickMug

  • 1st Kit
  • *
  • Posts: 12
    • View Profile
Re: Help dialing in a Saison recipe
« Reply #4 on: September 04, 2015, 08:30:41 PM »
Do you have any info out there about your Saison conditioning on raspberries? I'd love to see that.

Offline Stevie

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 6858
    • View Profile
Re: Help dialing in a Saison recipe
« Reply #5 on: September 04, 2015, 08:31:33 PM »
You can go a million ways with saison. I like a bit of rye personally.

Offline brewday

  • Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 453
  • Chicago
    • View Profile
Re: Help dialing in a Saison recipe
« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2015, 08:33:08 PM »
Looks tasty but I would skip the chocolate - I assume it's for color but I don't think you need it.
Jon Weaver

Offline ThickMug

  • 1st Kit
  • *
  • Posts: 12
    • View Profile
Re: Help dialing in a Saison recipe
« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2015, 08:39:33 PM »
Looks tasty but I would skip the chocolate - I assume it's for color but I don't think you need it.

Yes, it's for color -- too pale according to brewer's friend, but I really don't care about the guideline range. It's just for me and my friends. And I was wondering if it would affect the taste anyway.

Offline 69franx

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 3129
  • Bloatarian Brewing League
    • View Profile
Re: Help dialing in a Saison recipe
« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2015, 09:27:06 PM »
The belle saison has been racked off the fruit and away from original pellicle into glass to sit for a while. It has the beginnings of a new pellicle forming, so I will likely give it a couple months before sampling again
Frank L.
Fermenting:
Conditioning:
In keg: Märzen
In Bottles:  
In the works:

Offline Rhoobarb

  • Assistant Brewer
  • ***
  • Posts: 200
    • View Profile
Re: Help dialing in a Saison recipe
« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2015, 09:31:45 PM »
You can skip the beta amylase rest and just do a single infusion.
"Brewing beer to save money makes as much sense as buying a boat to cut costs on a fish dinner." -- Tim French

>^,,^<
Rhoobarb
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Chicken-City-Ale-Raisers/118689024850197

Offline ThickMug

  • 1st Kit
  • *
  • Posts: 12
    • View Profile
Re: Help dialing in a Saison recipe
« Reply #10 on: September 04, 2015, 09:41:20 PM »
The belle saison has been racked off the fruit and away from original pellicle into glass to sit for a while. It has the beginnings of a new pellicle forming, so I will likely give it a couple months before sampling again

Sorry if it's a stupid question, but when you say "pellicle," do you mean that it's doing some kind of fermentation other than with the Belle Saison? Like there's something else growing, maybe from the fruit? I'm just curious; if I get something weird, I don't want to throw it out if it's good.

Also, how do you leave your beer for two months?  :) I haven't developed the patience, yet.

Offline ThickMug

  • 1st Kit
  • *
  • Posts: 12
    • View Profile
Re: Help dialing in a Saison recipe
« Reply #11 on: September 04, 2015, 09:46:17 PM »
You can skip the beta amylase rest and just do a single infusion.

Good to know, thanks. So far I have nixed the 1 oz chocolate and beta rest.

Offline 69franx

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 3129
  • Bloatarian Brewing League
    • View Profile
Re: Help dialing in a Saison recipe
« Reply #12 on: September 04, 2015, 09:48:42 PM »
Yes, there is something else working on it: lacto, pedio, brett, who knows. Pretty sure it came from the red raspberries that I bought "fresh" to fill out the bill when I could not get enough black raspberries. There is another thread on here with pictures of it still in primary and I got a lot of help dealing with it. Normally I don't leave any brew for that long, but I was busy in the spring and also have the other saison that I should be bottling this weekend if I stop being so lazy with it
Frank L.
Fermenting:
Conditioning:
In keg: Märzen
In Bottles:  
In the works:

Offline 69franx

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 3129
  • Bloatarian Brewing League
    • View Profile
Re: Help dialing in a Saison recipe
« Reply #13 on: September 04, 2015, 09:50:24 PM »
The other thread was in Yeast and Fermentation, entitled "help me moving forward"
Frank L.
Fermenting:
Conditioning:
In keg: Märzen
In Bottles:  
In the works:

Offline klickitat jim

  • I must live here
  • **********
  • Posts: 8604
    • View Profile
Re: Help dialing in a Saison recipe
« Reply #14 on: September 04, 2015, 09:57:55 PM »
Yes, there is something else working on it: lacto, pedio, brett, who knows. Pretty sure it came from the red raspberries that I bought "fresh" to fill out the bill when I could not get enough black raspberries. There is another thread on here with pictures of it still in primary and I got a lot of help dealing with it. Normally I don't leave any brew for that long, but I was busy in the spring and also have the other saison that I should be bottling this weekend if I stop being so lazy with it
Im becoming a huge fan of letting something else work on them. Ive been enjoying the heck out of my saison finished with bret lambicus.