Author Topic: Help dialing in a Saison recipe  (Read 2194 times)

Offline 69franx

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Re: Help dialing in a Saison recipe
« Reply #15 on: September 04, 2015, 03:58:36 pm »
Yeah, very curious to see what comes out at the end
Frank L.
Fermenting: Nothing (ugh!)
Conditioning: Nothing (UGH!)
In keg: Nothing (Double UGH!)
In the works:  House IPA, Dark Mild, Ballantine Ale clone(still trying to work this one into the schedule)

Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Help dialing in a Saison recipe
« Reply #16 on: September 04, 2015, 04:21:24 pm »
Yeah, very curious to see what comes out at the end
I might bribe the guy who draws names for Swaptoberfest ;-)

Offline ThickMug

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Re: Help dialing in a Saison recipe
« Reply #17 on: September 04, 2015, 04:41:42 pm »
So, seriously; is there any way to ruin a Saison? I mean, if you can bring in bastard yeast on raspberries and it's still good, what an awesome style to work with.

Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Help dialing in a Saison recipe
« Reply #18 on: September 04, 2015, 05:19:31 pm »
So, seriously; is there any way to ruin a Saison? I mean, if you can bring in bastard yeast on raspberries and it's still good, what an awesome style to work with.
Ya, sort of. All beers ought to be very drinkable, so it cant be some disgusting bug that throws gag reflex inducing flavors. Beyond that though, saison is open but not wide open. Saisons ought to be dry, and have at least some... saison flavor and aroma. I know youre not supposed to use the word youre defining in the definition, but in short you ought to be able to detect saison yeast fermentation character in order to call it saison. If it has american fruity fermenation esters and doesnt finish dry, it aint a saison. But color, abv, hoppiness... that can vary a lot.

Offline 69franx

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Re: Help dialing in a Saison recipe
« Reply #19 on: September 04, 2015, 07:00:56 pm »
Yeah, very curious to see what comes out at the end
I might bribe the guy who draws names for Swaptoberfest ;-)
Jim, I'm in for some critiquing. Never had any of what I would call honest feedback from someone who knows. I've been happy that SWMBO and my friends like my beers, but we shall see come October. 
Frank L.
Fermenting: Nothing (ugh!)
Conditioning: Nothing (UGH!)
In keg: Nothing (Double UGH!)
In the works:  House IPA, Dark Mild, Ballantine Ale clone(still trying to work this one into the schedule)

Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Help dialing in a Saison recipe
« Reply #20 on: September 05, 2015, 06:04:59 am »
Yeah, very curious to see what comes out at the end
I might bribe the guy who draws names for Swaptoberfest ;-)
Jim, I'm in for some critiquing. Never had any of what I would call honest feedback from someone who knows. I've been happy that SWMBO and my friends like my beers, but we shall see come October.
Cool, should be fun

Offline reverseapachemaster

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Re: Help dialing in a Saison recipe
« Reply #21 on: September 05, 2015, 09:33:49 am »
With saison recipes (really with any recipe) less really is more. I'd challenge you to justify every ingredient. If it doesn't fit into your vision then it should go.

I generally think the chocolate malt and honey are unnecessary, you have too much munich and probably too much wheat unless you plan on addressing it in the mill and/or mash. You could go with more hops for a hoppier saison and I'd probably move the five minute addition to a whirlpool or flameout addition. But I don't know your vision for this beer and the recipe as it is may be appropriate.

I'm comfortable with the mash schedule. I usually mash my saisons at 144-146 and then up to 156. I like drying out the beer with the lower mash temperature but I usually spend more time at the beta rest and less at the alpha rest. The alpha rest, for me, is more about making sure I have complete conversion rather than trying to keep around longer chain sugars.
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Offline brewinhard

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Re: Help dialing in a Saison recipe
« Reply #22 on: September 05, 2015, 01:08:07 pm »
With saison recipes (really with any recipe) less really is more. I'd challenge you to justify every ingredient. If it doesn't fit into your vision then it should go.

I generally think the chocolate malt and honey are unnecessary, you have too much munich and probably too much wheat unless you plan on addressing it in the mill and/or mash. You could go with more hops for a hoppier saison and I'd probably move the five minute addition to a whirlpool or flameout addition. But I don't know your vision for this beer and the recipe as it is may be appropriate.

I'm comfortable with the mash schedule. I usually mash my saisons at 144-146 and then up to 156. I like drying out the beer with the lower mash temperature but I usually spend more time at the beta rest and less at the alpha rest. The alpha rest, for me, is more about making sure I have complete conversion rather than trying to keep around longer chain sugars.

Agreed.  No chocolate necessary, lower the wheat malt and munich malt to 1-1.5# at most (each).  As for the honey, if you want to add it then great, but the Belle saison strain is a real monster at attenuation and you probably won't even need to add any additional fermentables (like sugar or honey) to hit a low single digit FG.
You also won't need to condition your beer for 3 mos.  By 1 mos after packaging this beer should be tasting pretty good. 
I also concur with the step mash not being necessary.  Keep your brew day simple (at first) and do a single infusion rest around 147F/90 minutes.  Your beer will attenuate just fine. 

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Help dialing in a Saison recipe
« Reply #23 on: September 05, 2015, 01:13:17 pm »
With saison recipes (really with any recipe) less really is more. I'd challenge you to justify every ingredient. If it doesn't fit into your vision then it should go.

I generally think the chocolate malt and honey are unnecessary, you have too much munich and probably too much wheat unless you plan on addressing it in the mill and/or mash. You could go with more hops for a hoppier saison and I'd probably move the five minute addition to a whirlpool or flameout addition. But I don't know your vision for this beer and the recipe as it is may be appropriate.

I'm comfortable with the mash schedule. I usually mash my saisons at 144-146 and then up to 156. I like drying out the beer with the lower mash temperature but I usually spend more time at the beta rest and less at the alpha rest. The alpha rest, for me, is more about making sure I have complete conversion rather than trying to keep around longer chain sugars.

Agreed.  No chocolate necessary, lower the wheat malt and munich malt to 1-1.5# at most (each).  As for the honey, if you want to add it then great, but the Belle saison strain is a real monster at attenuation and you probably won't even need to add any additional fermentables (like sugar or honey) to hit a low single digit FG.
You also won't need to condition your beer for 3 mos.  By 1 mos after packaging this beer should be tasting pretty good. 
I also concur with the step mash not being necessary.  Keep your brew day simple (at first) and do a single infusion rest around 147F/90 minutes.  Your beer will attenuate just fine. 

+2.  Mash low and long and it'll attenuate just fine. Simpler is better with saison IMO.
Jon H.

Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Help dialing in a Saison recipe
« Reply #24 on: September 05, 2015, 02:50:57 pm »
Simpler the better - agreed, though my favorites always have a twist, like straight forward saison but finished with brett, or straight forward but with lime leaves, etc. Simple on the grain bill though, for sure. Complexity is cool, but when complexity is so complex you can differentiate... its just muddled.

Offline ThickMug

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Re: Help dialing in a Saison recipe
« Reply #25 on: September 05, 2015, 09:44:19 pm »
That sounds great, thanks. I'll reduce the wheat and Munich, and give that simple recipe a go. You guys have been a great help.