Author Topic: building a large starter  (Read 2123 times)

Offline Pi

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building a large starter
« on: September 23, 2015, 03:00:21 PM »
Got a vial of WLP830 and i am making a 5l starter for a Vienna brewing this sunday. I want to make another 5l starter for a similar batch i'm doing a couple days later, but was wondering what the best way to grow. Should i decant the first starter and dump another 5l of wort on that cake then split that between the 2 batches, or pinch a little cake from the first starter and start anew?
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Offline kramerog

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Re: building a large starter
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2015, 03:48:23 PM »
I vote for "pinching." In the first option, 5 L + 5 L does not equal to 10 L.

Offline narcout

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Re: building a large starter
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2015, 05:02:23 PM »
Assuming you hit maximum cell density on your first 5L starter, I don't think you are going to grow more yeast by decanting into a second 5L starter.



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Re: building a large starter
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2015, 08:58:01 PM »
The better question is why do you believe that you need a 5L starter?   Are you making a large batch of beer?

Offline Pi

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Re: building a large starter
« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2015, 12:27:43 AM »
The better question is why do you believe that you need a 5L starter?   Are you making a large batch of beer?
Cuz Mr Malty said so. 5.6 Gallons of 1.052 recommends 5l using a stir plate/1 vial. Last  Lager i did suffered i think because I under pitched.
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Re: building a large starter
« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2015, 01:14:49 AM »
That's beyond ridiculous.   No 5.6-gallon batch on the planet needs a 5L starter.  A batch of that gravity and size is a 1-liter starter pitched at high krausen at best.  I can start 5.6-gallon batch with 60B cells and produce an off-flavor-free beer.  Do you aerate your wort?  At what temperature do you start your wort?   

Offline reverseapachemaster

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Re: building a large starter
« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2015, 03:19:28 PM »
What settings did you use to get to a 5l starter? The only way on a 5.6gal 1052 beer with that calculator is using a fairly old lager pack. Mrmalty IMO overshoots the viability drop off on yeast vials/packs. It also doesn't take into consideration whether you are aerating/oxygenating the wort or whether you are pitching at high krausen.
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Offline Wort-H.O.G.

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Re: building a large starter
« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2015, 04:38:17 PM »
i'd feel good with doing the 5l starter and split the cake for the two batches. good fresh yeast and plenty for both average size brews IMO.
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Offline jtoots

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Re: building a large starter
« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2015, 06:11:40 PM »
What settings did you use to get to a 5l starter? The only way on a 5.6gal 1052 beer with that calculator is using a fairly old lager pack. Mrmalty IMO overshoots the viability drop off on yeast vials/packs. It also doesn't take into consideration whether you are aerating/oxygenating the wort or whether you are pitching at high krausen.

I'm seeing the same results with a production date of today and continuous aeration. 

Offline 69franx

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Re: building a large starter
« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2015, 06:27:03 PM »
When I plug 5.6g of 1.052 and 9/24 as production date, I get suggestion of 1 vial and 1.03L starter, unless I missed a detail somewhere...?
edit: missed lager, now it reads 2.06L
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Offline jtoots

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Re: building a large starter
« Reply #10 on: September 24, 2015, 06:51:00 PM »
When I plug 5.6g of 1.052 and 9/24 as production date, I get suggestion of 1 vial and 1.03L starter, unless I missed a detail somewhere...?
edit: missed lager, now it reads 2.06L
I get the same 2.06L when I'm at ale, simple starter.  When I swap it over to lager, it goes to 4.12 L with 2 vials.  That or 10.21L with 1 vial!  (keeping it at simple starter throughout).

Offline 69franx

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Re: building a large starter
« Reply #11 on: September 24, 2015, 06:55:19 PM »
When I plug 5.6g of 1.052 and 9/24 as production date, I get suggestion of 1 vial and 1.03L starter, unless I missed a detail somewhere...?
edit: missed lager, now it reads 2.06L
I get the same 2.06L when I'm at ale, simple starter.  When I swap it over to lager, it goes to 4.12 L with 2 vials.  That or 10.21L with 1 vial!  (keeping it at simple starter throughout).

I see that now too, thought we were on continuous aeration. Simple does give 4.12L. I knew I must have been missing something, turns out it was 2 things
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Offline klickitat jim

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Re: building a large starter
« Reply #12 on: September 24, 2015, 07:10:32 PM »
I gave up on pitch calculators. Too many variables to consider. I don't poopoo them for an entirely new brew or yeast, but I have found that I usually need to tweak things on the following rebrews.

I've also quit using my stirplates, but thats because I am following the new trend of not following old trends.

Offline 69franx

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Re: building a large starter
« Reply #13 on: September 24, 2015, 07:13:21 PM »
Right there with you Jim. No more stirred starters for me, and just trying to get within 1 replication period of optimal pitching rate. I have been very happy with my results so far 8)
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Offline klickitat jim

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Re: building a large starter
« Reply #14 on: September 24, 2015, 07:28:42 PM »
I don't shake it like it owes me money... thats what I wasted money on Oxygen and a stone for. So I oxygenate, then shake till I'm bored of shaking (about 15 secobds). Anyway, it gets me more yeast than the stirplate and it smells totally fresh and tastey, as compared to rank yeasty stirplate stuff. Works for me.

All of my ales get 2L of 1.030 and one smack pack per 6 gallons, lagers get two of those per 6 gallon. Amounts subject to change when dialing in a specific recipe. Someone may say thats too much, and I would say yes it might be. But the effects of too much are far less noticeable vs too little. Though, one might want too little or too much (at least compared to a calculator) depending on desired effects.