Author Topic: New Yeast starter procedure  (Read 1192 times)

Offline yso191

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New Yeast starter procedure
« on: November 29, 2015, 04:02:38 PM »
I just yesterday tried the new starter procedure that Mark introduced us all to.  I should have started with a strain I was more familiar with.  Now I'm not sure if something is wrong or not.

Yesterday I started the brew day by making 1 liter of 1.040 wort from DME.  When it was cool, I shook the bejesus out of it, and pitched one smack pack of Wyeast  1728, Scottish Ale into it, shaking it again just to mix it.  That was 20 hours ago.  Still nothing that could be described as 'high krausen.'  So now I'm wondering if 1728 just doesn't do much that way.  The date on the yeast was 9/10/15, but was not swollen.  What do you think?

http://i787.photobucket.com/albums/yy153/yso191/AHA/154A02CF-8B6B-4F5E-AC7E-44113B3DE5A3_zpsoff1dd3b.jpg


Steve
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Re: New Yeast starter procedure
« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2015, 04:13:48 PM »
Is that a 5-liter Erlenmeyer?  My preference is for a cylindrical fermentation vessel with a height to diameter ratio of not more than 2:1.

With that said, some cultures produce a nice krausen on starter wort whereas others do not produce much of a krausen.   Another way to tell when a starter is ready to pitch is that there will be significant change in clarity.  I do not know if your starter wort was clear after you boiled and chilled it, but it appears to be opaque in the photo.  A transition between clear/translucent and opaque means that the culture is near or at saturation, which means that is ready to pitch.

What was the packaging date?  Did you smack the package and allow it to swell before pitching?

By the way, thanks for the data point.  I pitch then shake.  I need to shake then pitch, and see if it makes a difference.

Offline yso191

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Re: New Yeast starter procedure
« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2015, 04:32:30 PM »
Mark, 

It is the same vessel you use.  A friend who works at the University of Washington got it for me from their surplus store.  I did smack the pack, but I did not wait for it to swell - I may have waited 30 minutes to an hour before pitching it.

There is a decent amount of yeast sediment on the bottom of the vessel.  It has been long enough since brewing (12 hours since the wort reached pitching temp) that I'd like to get the yeast into the wort.  I think I'm going to pitch it before going to church, then stop by the LHBS on the way home to see if they have another 1728.
Steve
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Offline denny

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Re: New Yeast starter procedure
« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2015, 04:38:08 PM »
Mark, 

It is the same vessel you use.  A friend who works at the University of Washington got it for me from their surplus store.  I did smack the pack, but I did not wait for it to swell - I may have waited 30 minutes to an hour before pitching it.

There is a decent amount of yeast sediment on the bottom of the vessel.  It has been long enough since brewing (12 hours since the wort reached pitching temp) that I'd like to get the yeast into the wort.  I think I'm going to pitch it before going to church, then stop by the LHBS on the way home to see if they have another 1728.

IMO, the amount of yeast sediment is more significant than seeing krausen.
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Offline klickitat jim

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Re: New Yeast starter procedure
« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2015, 11:46:31 PM »
Steve, if you pitched to the 1L starter wort, then walked away for 20 hrs, you probably missed high krausen. If you checked in on it during the 20 hrs and didn't see anything, that doesn't mean a whole lot because these starters dont really foam up a thick krausen like a full batch will. Sometimes I suppose, but not always.

I call my variation of mark's method 1LO2HK, 1 liter, oxygenated, pitched at high krausen. But in reality I'm probably not pitching right at high krausen, more like right before. My goal with a starter is to pitch ~200B cells that are in log phase, ~300-400 with lagers.

Its not always very obvious to tell if your starter is ready by looking. I am goiny to try an idea this week, hopefully a way of knowing, and if it works I'll post it.

Offline yso191

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Re: New Yeast starter procedure
« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2015, 12:13:21 AM »
Thanks Jim.  No I watched it like a hawk all day.  I figured I may wake up to high krausen, but no.  And no indication (based on a ring of dried crud above the level of the liquid) that it occurred at all.  I did pitch the starter this morning at about 8:00.  No airlock activity...

I hope it wasn't a bag of dead yeast.
Steve
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Offline klickitat jim

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Re: New Yeast starter procedure
« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2015, 12:18:17 AM »
It will be fine. Relax, dont worry, have an artisinal beer.

Offline yso191

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Re: New Yeast starter procedure
« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2015, 01:06:10 AM »
Man I'm so relaxed I slept through half the Seahawks game. 

Oh, and too many beers last night to have any today.  ooof.  Last night was full of outstanding examples.
Steve
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Offline JT

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Re: New Yeast starter procedure
« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2015, 01:40:53 AM »
My last 2 starters had next to no krausen.  They would look dead but if I gave them a swirl the krausen would form and then dissipate fairly quickly.  Not sure the cause of that.  Yeast strains were WLP001 and Wyeast 1010.  Starter wort was canned then hit with o2 prior to pitching. 

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Offline pete b

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Re: New Yeast starter procedure
« Reply #9 on: November 30, 2015, 01:16:06 PM »
I just did a starter last week like this with 1450. It didn't have what I would call a krausen but more a "krausen": islands of thin bubbles on about half the surface. I could see little streams of bubbles too. i had pitched a swelled pack in the evening and checked it all next day. Despite not obvious krausen I pitched it at 20 hours, confident I was in good shape not because there was krausen but because there was a heck of a lot more sediment than what's in a smack pack and the timing was right. I just figured a 1.030 dme wort with no hops debris isn't going to have as dramatic of a krausen as a batch of beer. The next morning, probably 15 hours after pitching at 61 degrees there was six inches of thick krausen on my porter.
FWIW I shook then pitched.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2015, 01:18:00 PM by pete b »
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Offline bierview

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Re: New Yeast starter procedure
« Reply #10 on: November 30, 2015, 01:56:36 PM »
I used 1728 about a year ago on my stir plate and don't remember much visual action. 

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Offline Biran

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Re: New Yeast starter procedure
« Reply #11 on: November 30, 2015, 10:12:38 PM »
I just yesterday tried the new starter procedure that Mark introduced us all to. 

Is this the "vitality" method that Marshall shared from Colin K?

Offline neddles

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Re: New Yeast starter procedure
« Reply #12 on: November 30, 2015, 10:20:04 PM »
Did this procedure with 002 last week. No krausen after 12 hrs. Yeast was 2 month old WL pure pitch. Pitched it anyhow and thing seem to have gone well. Great attenuation and the sample tasted great at day 6.

Offline morticaixavier

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Re: New Yeast starter procedure
« Reply #13 on: November 30, 2015, 11:13:14 PM »
I just yesterday tried the new starter procedure that Mark introduced us all to. 

Is this the "vitality" method that Marshall shared from Colin K?

perhaps. We were introduced to the idea by Mark (S.Cerv) here on the forum.
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Offline brewday

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Re: New Yeast starter procedure
« Reply #14 on: November 30, 2015, 11:23:52 PM »
I just yesterday tried the new starter procedure that Mark introduced us all to. 

Is this the "vitality" method that Marshall shared from Colin K?

IIRC that one (vitality) is different as it involves a slow-stirred starter at the beginning of brewday.
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