Author Topic: Stout Thoughts  (Read 2813 times)

Offline klickitat jim

  • I must live here
  • **********
  • Posts: 8479
    • View Profile
Stout Thoughts
« on: December 26, 2015, 07:20:43 AM »
My recipe expertise blows. If you are really familiar with stouts take a look, see what you think.

American Stout
1.060
62% Golden Promise
28% Best dark Munich
7% black barley
3% chocolate malt
154F 90 min, 5.4ph, 120ppm SO4
34 BU Magnum at 60
8 BU Centennial at 10
6 BU Cascade at 10
WY1056 65F till 50% ADF then 74F

Irish Stout
1.043
75% Golden Promise
10% Flaked Barley
7.5% Black Barley
7.5% Roasted Barley
150F 90 min 5.4 ph, 120ppm CaCl
30 BU Challenger at 60
5 BU EKG at 10
WY1084 65F till 50% ADF then 74F

Offline fmader

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1675
    • View Profile
Re: Stout Thoughts
« Reply #1 on: December 26, 2015, 01:44:17 PM »
Hey Jim! I'm not going to comment on your Irish stout, because I'm not real familiar with the style. I do brew quite a bit American and Russian imperial stouts though. For your American stout, I'd swap out the black barley for roasted barley and keep your percentages the same with dark malts. You want that exaggerated roastedness in an American stout and the roasted barley will get you there.  I usually go with less Munich and go 5% medium crystal. Go with a mash pH of 5.6. Hoosierbrew suggested this to me a while back for dark beers. Yep, that's a sweet spot. Not a necessity, but I also like a balanced profile. Looks good, man!
Frank

Offline majorvices

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 9642
  • Polka. If its too loud you're too young.
    • View Profile
    • Yellowhammer Brewing Company
Re: Stout Thoughts
« Reply #2 on: December 26, 2015, 02:19:36 PM »
IIRC correctly the traditional ratio for a dry Irish Stout is 70% 2-row (Maris Otter or Golden Promite work well here), 20% flaked barley and 10% roasted barley for around a 1.044 beer and around 30 BUs. For my personal preference I sub in 20% of Dark Munich for the 2-row (and I use maris Otter for the rest) and target a 1.050 OG.

Offline HoosierBrew

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 13030
  • Indianapolis,IN
    • View Profile
Re: Stout Thoughts
« Reply #3 on: December 26, 2015, 02:36:28 PM »
Can't add much to the Irish stout advice - Keith nailed it. As for the American stout, it usually has a BU:GU of at or near 1:1 . It sounds like a lot but the bitterness doesn't come off as IPA-like. It interacts with the dark malts in a dark chocolate sort of way. FWIW the American stout I sent Eric in the swap was 1.072 OG/ 70 IBU. Also, I'd swap out the black barley for roasted barley in the same %. And the 1056 works great for it, but if you can get a hold of some 1450 Denny's it works even better - it leaves a fuller mouthfeel and is perfect for porter and stout.


Edit - Mashing @ 5.6 pH makes a gigantic difference for this beer. It smooths out the harsh edges in a big way.
« Last Edit: December 26, 2015, 02:45:47 PM by HoosierBrew »
Jon H.

Offline majorvices

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 9642
  • Polka. If its too loud you're too young.
    • View Profile
    • Yellowhammer Brewing Company
Re: Stout Thoughts
« Reply #4 on: December 26, 2015, 02:53:02 PM »
Jon, you using Calcium Carbonate or Baking Soda to adjust your pH?

Offline HoosierBrew

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 13030
  • Indianapolis,IN
    • View Profile
Re: Stout Thoughts
« Reply #5 on: December 26, 2015, 03:02:17 PM »
Jon, you using Calcium Carbonate or Baking Soda to adjust your pH?


Baking soda for me. Using all RO the sodium is well under Martin's limits.
Jon H.

Offline BrodyR

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 510
  • Philadelphia, PA
    • View Profile
Re: Stout Thoughts
« Reply #6 on: December 26, 2015, 07:21:17 PM »
I just did a couple:

Irish Dry: 70% Marris, 20% Flaked Barley, 10% Muntons Roasted Barley (much darker than US Roasted Barley), WLP 004. Added the Roasted Barley at end of mash. Final pH was like 3.85 IIRC.

Second One I tried to make it as smooth as possible. 73% US 2 Row, 14% Flaked Oats, 11% Debittered Black Malt, 3% Lactose. US-05. 25IBUs from a hop shot. Final pH was higher, something like 4.2 I think.

Both were tasty beers. Think next I'll try WLP002, target the higher pH, and use UK Roasted Barley again. 

Offline klickitat jim

  • I must live here
  • **********
  • Posts: 8479
    • View Profile
Re: Stout Thoughts
« Reply #7 on: December 26, 2015, 08:03:03 PM »
Thanks guys. I made some adjustments

Am Stout
1.063
62% GP
28% dark Munich
7% Roast Barley
3% chocolate
5.6ph Ca 56 Mg 10 Na 8 CaCl 37 SO4 43 CaCO3 107 (well water with a little CaCl and SO4)
66 BU
1oz Magnum @60
1oz Centennial @10
1oz Cascade @10
1056 at 65/74


Dry Stout
1.044
68% GP
20% Flaked Barley
10% Roasted Barley
2% Black Barley to get color up
5.6ph Ca 75 Mg 10 Na 8 CaCl 104 SO4 0 CaCO3 107 (well with CaCl)
30BU
1oz Challenger @60
1084 @ 65/74

Offline mabrungard

  • Brewmaster General
  • *******
  • Posts: 2388
  • Water matters!
    • View Profile
    • Bru'n Water
Re: Stout Thoughts
« Reply #8 on: December 26, 2015, 08:35:37 PM »
Don't forget that acidity is a component of the flavor profile for Irish Dry Stout. Targeting the typical dark beer mash pH of 5.5 to 5.6 is not what you want in the Dry Stout. Targeting a lower pH in the 5.2 to 5.4 range is more proper for that style.
Martin B
Carmel, IN

BJCP National
Foam Blowers of Indiana (FBI)

Brewing Water Information at:
https://sites.google.com/site/brunwater/

Like Bru'n Water on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/Brun-Water-464551136933908/?ref=bookmarks

Offline klickitat jim

  • I must live here
  • **********
  • Posts: 8479
    • View Profile
Re: Stout Thoughts
« Reply #9 on: December 26, 2015, 08:45:51 PM »
Don't forget that acidity is a component of the flavor profile for Irish Dry Stout. Targeting the typical dark beer mash pH of 5.5 to 5.6 is not what you want in the Dry Stout. Targeting a lower pH in the 5.2 to 5.4 range is more proper for that style.
Thats what I thought. But was going to try their suggestions and adjust post fermentation if needed. Or was I miss reading what they were saying? Am Stout 5.6ph mash and Dry Stout 5.2ph?


Edit: I just went back in and changed the Dry Stout to 5.2ph with lactic additions
« Last Edit: December 26, 2015, 09:34:02 PM by klickitat jim »

Offline Wort-H.O.G.

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 4439
  • Play Nice
    • View Profile
    • Harvey's Brewhaus
Re: Stout Thoughts
« Reply #10 on: December 26, 2015, 10:55:47 PM »
Don't forget that acidity is a component of the flavor profile for Irish Dry Stout. Targeting the typical dark beer mash pH of 5.5 to 5.6 is not what you want in the Dry Stout. Targeting a lower pH in the 5.2 to 5.4 range is more proper for that style.
Thats what I thought. But was going to try their suggestions and adjust post fermentation if needed. Or was I miss reading what they were saying? Am Stout 5.6ph mash and Dry Stout 5.2ph?


Edit: I just went back in and changed the Dry Stout to 5.2ph with lactic additions


you're on track IMO. Mash higher PH and adjust post boil....smoother roast from higher mash PH, then crisp acidic finish with post mash PH adjustments.
Ken- Chagrin Falls, OH
CPT, U.S.Army
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Harveys-Brewhaus/405092862905115

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=The_Science_of_Mashing

Serving:        In Process:
Vienna IPA          O'Fest
Dort
Mead                 
Cider                         
Ger'merican Blonde
Amber Ale
Next:
Ger Pils
O'Fest

Offline klickitat jim

  • I must live here
  • **********
  • Posts: 8479
    • View Profile
Re: Stout Thoughts
« Reply #11 on: December 26, 2015, 11:12:56 PM »
I'm not brewing till Monday. I'll ponder it and decide by then. I think I like both ideas but leaning toward final beer adjustment.

Offline fmader

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1675
    • View Profile
Re: Stout Thoughts
« Reply #12 on: December 26, 2015, 11:19:41 PM »
I think you'll have good beers. Let us know how they turn out. I brewed an American porter last Monday. I hit about 40 IBUs and whirlpooled 1.5 oz centennial and 2.5 oz cascade. My wife asked me to try and replicate 3 Floyds Alpha Klaus... So my arm was really twisted lol. I'm going to use the yeast cake from this for a big ass Russian Imperial Stout that will have an OG around 1.100. This yeast is WLP 001, but will also add WLP 007 to the mix. That will age in the keg until next winter.
Frank

Offline HoosierBrew

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 13030
  • Indianapolis,IN
    • View Profile
Re: Stout Thoughts
« Reply #13 on: December 26, 2015, 11:35:30 PM »
Ken and Jim - I'll be curious to see what you guys think if you adjust pH down after the fact. I know it's done on pale German lagers, but I'm curious to see how that changes the character on a dark beer,ie., if it makes it more harsh or acrid.


Edit - I didn't mean to imply that the Irish should mash at 5.6 BTW. I was just posting on the American stout. The Irish definitely comes out more authentic @ 5.2 - 5.4. 
« Last Edit: December 26, 2015, 11:39:03 PM by HoosierBrew »
Jon H.

Offline klickitat jim

  • I must live here
  • **********
  • Posts: 8479
    • View Profile
Re: Stout Thoughts
« Reply #14 on: December 26, 2015, 11:37:41 PM »
I think you'll have good beers. Let us know how they turn out. I brewed an American porter last Monday. I hit about 40 IBUs and whirlpooled 1.5 oz centennial and 2.5 oz cascade. My wife asked me to try and replicate 3 Floyds Alpha Klaus... So my arm was really twisted lol. I'm going to use the yeast cake from this for a big ass Russian Imperial Stout that will have an OG around 1.100. This yeast is WLP 001, but will also add WLP 007 to the mix. That will age in the keg until next winter.
Awesome. Im going to take a shot at an Imperial Stout and an American Strong probably around March. I like those in the winter but they make nice night caps the rest of the year.