[dean]

I'm making a small IPA, all late hop additions.  Hop combination I've never tried either.  Here is my original water report.
Cal: 50, Mg: 18, Na: 6, Sulfate: 5, Cl: 6, Bicarb: 220.8

And here is what I plan to do this weekend, opinions welcomed, I'm trying to learn beersmith and use Kai's spreadsheet... as well as hoping to make a decent brew.   

Hopper
Brew Type: All Grain Date: 6/19/2010
Style: American IPA Brewer: Dean
Batch Size: 5.50 gal Assistant Brewer: 
Boil Volume: 6.51 gal Boil Time: 60 min
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 % Equipment: C70E MT 5 gallon batches
Actual Efficiency: 0.00
Taste Rating (50 possible points): 35.0

Ingredients Amount Item Type % or IBU
9 lbs 8.0 oz Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM) Grain 85.35 %
1 lbs Wheat Malt, Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 8.98 %
8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM) Grain 4.49 %
2.1 oz De-Bittered Black Malt (Dingemans) (550.0 SRM) Grain 1.17 %
0.0 oz Carared (20.0 SRM) Grain 0.00 %
0.50 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] (20 min) Hops 13.2 IBU
1.00 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] (15 min) Hops 13.1 IBU
0.50 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] (10 min) Hops 7.9 IBU
0.50 oz Cascade [5.50 %] (10 min) Hops 3.1 IBU
0.50 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] (5 min) Hops 4.4 IBU
0.50 oz Cascade [5.50 %] (5 min) Hops 1.7 IBU
0.50 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] (5 min) Hops 2.6 IBU
1.00 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] (0 min) Hops - 
1.00 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] (0 min) Hops - 
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] (0 min) Hops - 
0.70 ml Lactic Acid (Mash 60.0 min) Misc 
0.90 ml Lactic Acid (Boil 60.0 min) Misc 
1.00 gm Epsom Salt (MgSO4) (Mash 60.0 min) Misc 
3.00 gm Calcium Chloride (Mash 60.0 min) Misc 
3.00 gm Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash 60.0 min) Misc 
1 Pkgs American Ale (Wyeast Labs #1056) Yeast-Ale 

Beer Profile Estimated Original Gravity: 1.057 SG (1.056-1.075 SG) Measured Original Gravity: 1.000 SG
Estimated Final Gravity: 1.014 SG (1.010-1.018 SG) Measured Final Gravity: 1.000 SG
Estimated Color: 12.5 SRM (6.0-15.0 SRM) Color [Color]
Bitterness: 46.1 IBU (40.0-70.0 IBU) Alpha Acid Units: 15.5 AAU
Estimated Alcohol by Volume: 5.66 % (5.50-7.50 %) Actual Alcohol by Volume: 0.00 %
Actual Calories: -2 cal/pint


Mash Profile Name: Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge Mash Tun Weight: 13.00 lb
Mash Grain Weight: 11.13 lb Mash PH: 5.4 PH
Grain Temperature: 72.0 F Sparge Temperature: 168.0 F
Sparge Water: 4.37 gal Adjust Temp for Equipment: TRUE

Name Description Step Temp Step Time
Mash In Add 13.91 qt of water at 169.4 F 154.0 F 60 min


Mash Notes
Simple single infusion mash for use with most modern well modified grains (about 95% of the time).
Carbonation and Storage Carbonation Type: Kegged (Forced CO2) Carbonation Volumes: 2.5 (2.2-2.7 vols)
Estimated Pressure: 12.3 PSI Kegging Temperature: 40.0 F
Pressure Used: -12 Age for: 3.0 Weeks
Storage Temperature: 52.0 F


Notes
Estimated RA: 68

[deepsouth]

do you have any hops before 20 minutes?

[Kaiser]

I think you should be fine with adding 4.5 g gypsum to the mash only. That should give you about 85 ppm Ca, 89 ppm SO4 and 6 ppm Cl when calculated to the whole water amount that you are using. The lactid acid may not be needed in the mash. I estimate a mash pH of 5.4 for you. but ~2 ml lactic acid in the sparge water will help you combat its alkalinity and prevent the sparge and wort pH from rising too much.

Kai

[dean]

Ok, I see what you did.  I had your spreadsheet set for equal sizes on the mash and sparge.  After dropping it back to a 1.25-1 ratio all I need is the gypsum as you said but that puts my Cl to Sulfate ratio at (.07) very bitter.  Since they are all late additions and no bittering additions, how will it effect that?  Thank you for your time Kai.   

[deepsouth]

i'm interested into why only the late hop additions?  that's something i'm unfamiliar with, but would like to learn about.

[richardt]

This should be an interesting beer. I'm guessing it is going to be extremely malty (cloying?) with some hop flavor and aroma...

No bittering additions (i.e., 60 minutes), yet called an IPA. 
In fact, I don't know of any style that doesn't seem to have some bittering addition around 60 minutes.
To be fair, you'll get some IBU's from the flavor additions (i.e., 20 minutes), but not much. 

Nonetheless, I like malty beers.  If it turns out good be sure to give the newly-created style a cool name

[beerocd]

Isn't a small IPA a Pale Ale? 
If not - how are they different?

[sienabrewer]

My experience with Columbus is that it is a very dominate hop.  What I mean is that I think you are short siding your Cascades by mixing them Columbus.  Plus, I don't think you have enough bitterness for this being a hopburst recipe.  I know it says you in the mid-40s for IBUs, but it's not going to drink like that.  I think you are going to have a cloying beer.  That being said, I would still stick with you hops, but move them around.  I'd combine the Amarillo and Columbus hops for the 20, 15, and 10 minute additions and blast the beer with Cascade for 5 and flameout ones. 

[dean]

Trying to answer everyone, I've never tried late hop addtions "only" before and according to beersmith and other calculators I should have IBU's in the 40's which is within style guidlines, barely but it is.  Malty with a lot of hop flavor.... that would be fine with me as long as its drinkable.  I hope its not cloying but that is a possibility, I might change the hops around as sienabrewer said... not to get more IBU's but to keep from overpowering one or the other.  I had thought about using columbus only, I've never done that either.  I'm just playing around for the most part, seeing what I get, what I don't and trying to learn the programs.  I'm no genius with making beer but I do get lucky from time to time.   

I've got a lot of grains, a fair amout of yeast and I'm able to brew again so the bug is hitting hard right now.     My sour mash is smelling pretty good finally, haven't tasted it but it smells decent now and it looks like its about done fermenting, haven't checked the gravity on it... maybe tomorrow.  I've heard some horror stories about sour mashes too.        I've also got a belgian fermenting, or at least I think its fermenting, I can't see it in the keg and I'm not in a hurry to open it and look.  I'm thinking maybe a RIS or holiday beer is next, and soon.   

[deepsouth]

are you going to get a lot of hop flavor though with only the late additions? 

[dean]

I don't know, I would think that it should be mostly flavor with some bittering.    

Thinking about Kai's suggestion with the Cl-S04 ratio, that might be a good idea, I wonder if it would make the hops more crisp rather than just bitter?  I don't know much about that stuff, so its another reason to experiment. 

[richardt]

How quickly you cool down the wort after knockout (turning off the heat) may also impact your bitterness level.

If it takes an hour to chill (e.g., putting the pot in the stream behind your house), then I'd expect higher bitterness levels.  If you're using the immersion chiller, then I wouldn't expect it to have a high level of  bitterness, just a lot of hop flavor and aroma.

Good luck with it--Let us know how it turns out!  It may be the next craze!

[dean]

How quickly you cool down the wort after knockout (turning off the heat) may also impact your bitterness level.

If it takes an hour to chill (e.g., putting the pot in the stream behind your house), then I'd expect higher bitterness levels.  If you're using the immersion chiller, then I wouldn't expect it to have a high level of  bitterness, just a lot of hop flavor and aroma.

Good luck with it--Let us know how it turns out!  It may be the next craze!

I tried to PM you but I got an error sending it.    Anyway, I think Bell's HopSlam might be mostly or all late additions... the hop flavoring is over the top, but their abv is pretty big too.

If this turns out I'll make a bigger version with way more hops, I've got too many hops right now for what I normally use, at least 10 or 12 varieties, mostly home grown that I bought so I don't know what to expect from them and some are almost 2 years old now (kept in a freezer in vac-sealed bags.)  If somebody needs hops and wants to try home grown hops PM me and I'll tell you what I have.

[dean]

I moved my hops around without adding more hops or changin hops, all still being late additions and ended up with 63 IBU's per BeerSmith.  OG was 1.061 and FG was 1.013, huge hop aroma, a good amount of flavor and definitely bitter... drawback is it looks like a wheat beer being very cloudy, I also forgot to add whirlflock.  Maybe some will settle out in the keg but I'm not going to expect much and I'm not going to give it much time before I start drinking it either, a week or two if its lucky.      

No hops were used with more than 20 minutes in the boil. 

[bonjour]

This should be an interesting beer. I'm guessing it is going to be extremely malty (cloying?) with some hop flavor and aroma...

No bittering additions (i.e., 60 minutes), yet called an IPA. 
In fact, I don't know of any style that doesn't seem to have some bittering addition around 60 minutes.
To be fair, you'll get some IBU's from the flavor additions (i.e., 20 minutes), but not much. 

Nonetheless, I like malty beers.  If it turns out good be sure to give the newly-created style a cool name

All hops added while the wort is hot impart bitterness,   less bitterness the later they are added,
tremendous aroma and flavor the later they are added (because you are using more hops to get your bitterness.)