Author Topic: Belgian ipa(used saison yeast)  (Read 1607 times)

Offline spin62

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Belgian ipa(used saison yeast)
« on: November 07, 2016, 10:04:23 AM »
hi, i'm home brewing foreign beginner(started home brewing 1year ago, and not american)
my major is food science(process technologic, QC/QA, etc)

can i ask your think about this recipe?

batch volume : 5gallon

mash temp & time : 68C, 30mins

ingredients
pale 2kg
pilsner 1.8kg
wheat 1kg
flaked oats 0.5kg
cara pils 0.3kg

hops's schedule
boiling 60min - warrior 1oz
whirpooling 20min - citra 2oz, mosaic 2oz
dry hopping - citra 2oz, mosaic 2oz

total boiling time : 90min

SO4:Cl = 100: 130
BU/GU= 0.95

yeast : saison yeast

everyone, how think about this recipe?
« Last Edit: November 07, 2016, 11:14:42 PM by spin62 »

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Belgian ipa(used saison yeast)
« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2016, 01:05:28 PM »
Just my $0.02 :

1/  You don't need to boil it for 90 mins

2/  If the SO4:Chloride is in ppm, you need to back off to maybe half those amounts. Martin has posted that you run the risk of a minerally beer when you have sulfate and chloride both over 100 ppm.

3/  I don't think the saison strain will work best here. Saison yeasts attenuate to very low FG (like 1.004 and under) and the lack of body caused by such a low FG might not support an IPA hop load. IMO WY 3522 is an excellent strain to use here.
Jon H.

Offline erockrph

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Re: Belgian ipa(used saison yeast)
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2016, 01:33:00 PM »
3/  I don't think the saison strain will work best here. Saison yeasts attenuate to very low FG (like 1.004 and under) and the lack of body caused by such a low FG might not support an IPA hop load. IMO WY 3522 is an excellent strain to use here.

Personally, I find that any Belgian-style yeast clashes with typical IPA-level hopping, especially if you have an abrasive bitterness. But I do agree that a super-dry saison yeast would be especially rough. Personally, I think the Duvel strain (WLP570) works best for Belgian IPA's. I still try to keep the IBUs at 50 or less, from a clean bittering hop. For me, the best Belgian IPA's take advantage of the ester profile of the yeast in combination with the flavor of the hops, with only just enough bitterness to provide balance and a crisp finish.

I think Citra/Mosaic would be a good combo. Any hops with citrus, stonefruit or tropical notes play nice with Belgian yeast. Your late hopping rate is on the low end for me, but should work. Double the whirlpool and/or dry hop quantities would be better.
Eric B.

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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Belgian ipa(used saison yeast)
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2016, 01:39:45 PM »
Personally, I find that any Belgian-style yeast clashes with typical IPA-level hopping


I don't make Belgian IPAs anymore for that reason. Of the ones I made, I found that 3522 fermented fairly cool made the best one by far, as its esters were subtle and balanced. I didn't use the Duvel strain though.
Jon H.

Offline kramerog

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Re: Belgian ipa(used saison yeast)
« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2016, 02:47:34 PM »
DePont yeast could work well with a juice/New England IPA if you don't try to drive the gravity down.  I would still look at lowering the amount of Warrior to reduce IBUs.  Sulfate and chloride levels are fine for the style.

Offline spin62

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Re: Belgian ipa(used saison yeast)
« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2016, 03:35:42 PM »
saison yeast ipa reason :  i make only pale ale, IPA, saison, when i was make Galaxy saison
that aroma is really nice. i want try make saison yeast ipa. but i know saison yeast make low-FG and clashes bitterness and FG(yeast effect)

i think O.G's 1.065(and FG 1.014~015), IBUs 60~70
and i was mistake, i wrote mash temp :65, actually i would write mash temp : 68

erockrph// i have experiences of Belgian ipa's 8 times, and used WLP570 or bastogne yeast or witbier yeast.
i tried test for spring and summer(1. effect of mash temp on FG, Fix condition: saison(wlp566) yeast, made 5L, gravity .065/ 2. choosed mash temp figure, they can balance with FG and IBU / 3. choosed one figure of 2. experiment and try comparative experiment with WLP570, WLP400, WLP510) and 3 repeat

1. changed conditions(mash temp) : 60C/63C/65C/68C/70C ->average value of result, i choose 65, 68, 70, because 65C,s fg .012 / 68, 70C's fg .014~15), 60~63C is very low FG(1.00X~1.010)

2. changed conditions(IBU, but used bitterness hop fix : warior(co-houmlone less than others), but i can't calculating IBU, instead Beer smith app use for IBU's calculate) , IBU(IBU/OG) :50(0.77)/55(0.85)/60(0.92)/65(1.0)/70(1.08)/75(1.16), and mash temp(make times) 65C(3times)/68(3)/70(3)
-> i choosed mash temp 68C, IBU60, because that taste little bitter and smooth texture

2-1. but i try other test, fixed mash temp(68) and change condition(IBU/OG : 0.80/0.85/0.9/0.95/1.00)
and tasted 0.80~0.95 are fine(0.80& 0.85 : smooth, 0.90&0.95 : little bitter, but 1.00 is worse than other taste)

3. fixed conditions : OG .065, IBU/OG : 0.95, FG: .014 / controled condtions : Yeast and mash temp
because make beer for FG .014, saison yeast's mash temp 68, but other yeast's mash temp 65(if mashing in 68C, that beer's FG is 016~018), that purpose is differnce aroma, texture, taste, flavor
because check merit of saison yeast's IPA better than other yeast
me and my friends(beer geeks, normal) write review
choose WLP 570 and saison yeast
have one intested : choosed WLP570=like west coast ipa / choosed saison yeast=like east coast
but both wlp 570 and saison y are complex, but we can choice only belgian ipaS(saison Y, golden ale Y, witbier Y,) some people thinks WLp570 is clearly than saison yeast

but one dangerous point : tasters have 6 guy, result of no. 3 test can make Generalization error

and i try that, and check flavor, aroma, taste, etc

thx reply
and my english is not well, reading is very difficult
« Last Edit: November 07, 2016, 03:55:50 PM by spin62 »

Offline spin62

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Re: Belgian ipa(used saison yeast)
« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2016, 03:40:51 PM »
and this month

same yeast, IBU/OG : 0.85, APA(american pale ale), hops : warrior, citra, centenial
malts : pale, pilsner, wheat, munich, cara-pils
ABV : 5%

very smooth texture, aroma : white wine, citrus

and i don't used caramel malt in that recipe, because i tryed same condition and used caramel malts(3%)
can feeling sweet taste

kramerog // ok, thx, i changed IBU/OG 0.85~0.9

Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Belgian ipa(used saison yeast)
« Reply #7 on: November 07, 2016, 05:05:35 PM »
2/  If the SO4:Chloride is in ppm, you need to back off to maybe half those amounts. Martin has posted that you run the risk of a minerally beer when you have sulfate and chloride both over 100 ppm.

Sulfate and chloride levels are fine for the style.


It was pre-coffee when I posted. Yeah, I use high sulfate levels in IPAs all the time, so I should've recommended to drop the chloride back a bit ( or drop the sulfate a bit and keep the chloride as is for NE IPA). I still take Martin's advice not to have both >=  100ppm. Each his own.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2016, 05:15:56 PM by HoosierBrew »
Jon H.

Offline denny

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Re: Belgian ipa(used saison yeast)
« Reply #8 on: November 07, 2016, 05:07:09 PM »
Personally, I find that any Belgian-style yeast clashes with typical IPA-level hopping, especially if you have an abrasive bitterness. But I do agree that a super-dry saison yeast would be especially rough. Personally, I think the Duvel strain (WLP570) works best for Belgian IPA's. I still try to keep the IBUs at 50 or less, from a clean bittering hop. For me, the best Belgian IPA's take advantage of the ester profile of the yeast in combination with the flavor of the hops, with only just enough bitterness to provide balance and a crisp finish.

I think Citra/Mosaic would be a good combo. Any hops with citrus, stonefruit or tropical notes play nice with Belgian yeast. Your late hopping rate is on the low end for me, but should work. Double the whirlpool and/or dry hop quantities would be better.

Have you tried Ardennes yeast? (WY3522)  I find that its tartness really complement the hops in a Belgo/American IPA.
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Offline HoosierBrew

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Re: Belgian ipa(used saison yeast)
« Reply #9 on: November 07, 2016, 05:14:24 PM »
Personally, I find that any Belgian-style yeast clashes with typical IPA-level hopping, especially if you have an abrasive bitterness. But I do agree that a super-dry saison yeast would be especially rough. Personally, I think the Duvel strain (WLP570) works best for Belgian IPA's. I still try to keep the IBUs at 50 or less, from a clean bittering hop. For me, the best Belgian IPA's take advantage of the ester profile of the yeast in combination with the flavor of the hops, with only just enough bitterness to provide balance and a crisp finish.

I think Citra/Mosaic would be a good combo. Any hops with citrus, stonefruit or tropical notes play nice with Belgian yeast. Your late hopping rate is on the low end for me, but should work. Double the whirlpool and/or dry hop quantities would be better.

Have you tried Ardennes yeast? (WY3522)  I find that its tartness really complement the hops in a Belgo/American IPA.


Yeah, that's the only one I cared for too, Denny.


Jon H.

Offline spin62

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Re: Belgian ipa(used saison yeast)
« Reply #10 on: November 07, 2016, 05:30:32 PM »
i changed water SO4 : 91, Cl: 128

and i can buy small kind of yeast in my country. :(

Offline reverseapachemaster

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Re: Belgian ipa(used saison yeast)
« Reply #11 on: November 07, 2016, 06:20:42 PM »
If you have already tested the saison yeast and like the results then we shouldn't try to convince you not to use it.

With the changes you have already made I think you have a good recipe for what you are trying to achieve.
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Offline spin62

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Re: Belgian ipa(used saison yeast)
« Reply #12 on: November 07, 2016, 10:51:29 PM »
i have try test between wihte lab saison, farmhouse yeast
belgian saison 1&2, french saison, american farmhouse bret blend(fixed condition: og .060 / same recipe, mash shcedule, fermentation time&temperature / don't use arma hops)
i think belgian saison2 and french saison can good harmony with new-hops