[Iliff Ave]

I am considering making some changes to my last APA and brewing it as a lager. I think I will leave the grain alone and switch the bittering hops from Bravo to Magnum. Any other advice based on the original recipe below?

60% Pilsner
20% Munich 6L
20% Pale Wheat

Bravo 60 min (switch to Magnum?)
2 oz Equinox 2 min
1 oz Simcoe 2 min
2 oz Equinox DH
1 oz Simcoe DH

~50 IBU

[HoosierBrew]

I am considering making some changes to my last APA and brewing it as a lager. I think I will leave the grain alone and switch the bittering hops from Bravo to Magnum. Any other advice based on the original recipe below?

60% Pilsner
20% Munich 6L
20% Pale Wheat

Bravo 60 min (switch to Magnum?)
2 oz Equinox 2 min
1 oz Simcoe 2 min
2 oz Equinox DH
1 oz Simcoe DH

~50 IBU

Sounds good to me. I might consider reducing or cutting the pale wheat, to reduce the potential for haze. An APA with some haze is fine, but a lager needs to be crystal IMO. Could be gel fined obviously, though. If you use the wheat for foam , try 3% flaked barley. Works nicely.

[Iliff Ave]

I am considering making some changes to my last APA and brewing it as a lager. I think I will leave the grain alone and switch the bittering hops from Bravo to Magnum. Any other advice based on the original recipe below?

60% Pilsner
20% Munich 6L
20% Pale Wheat

Bravo 60 min (switch to Magnum?)
2 oz Equinox 2 min
1 oz Simcoe 2 min
2 oz Equinox DH
1 oz Simcoe DH

~50 IBU

Sounds good to me. I might consider reducing or cutting the pale wheat, to reduce the potential for haze. An APA with some haze is fine, but a lager needs to be crystal IMO. Could be gel fined obviously, though. If you use the wheat for foam , try 3% flaked barley. Works nicely.

Thanks Jon. I was thinking about just nixing the wheat in favor of pilsner but I really like the current APA so I don't know if a change is necessary. I guess wheat isn't a very common ingredient in lagers....

The current APA is pretty damn clear with US05 so I am not too concerned from that perspective especially since 34/70 drops bright easily for me.

[HoosierBrew]

I am considering making some changes to my last APA and brewing it as a lager. I think I will leave the grain alone and switch the bittering hops from Bravo to Magnum. Any other advice based on the original recipe below?

60% Pilsner
20% Munich 6L
20% Pale Wheat

Bravo 60 min (switch to Magnum?)
2 oz Equinox 2 min
1 oz Simcoe 2 min
2 oz Equinox DH
1 oz Simcoe DH

~50 IBU

Sounds good to me. I might consider reducing or cutting the pale wheat, to reduce the potential for haze. An APA with some haze is fine, but a lager needs to be crystal IMO. Could be gel fined obviously, though. If you use the wheat for foam , try 3% flaked barley. Works nicely.

Thanks Jon. I was thinking about just nixing the wheat in favor of pilsner but I really like the current APA so I don't know if a change is necessary. I guess wheat isn't a very common ingredient in lagers....

The current APA is pretty damn clear with US05 so I am not too concerned from that perspective especially since 34/70 drops bright easily for me.

I'm sure it'll be good either way.

[stpug]

I would personally use those 2min additions as a hopstand/steep addition at 170F for 45-60min.  Then I'd ferment at the cold end of the yeast 48F-ish to keep the vigor down.

But, you could change nothing and still end up with a great beer, I'm sure.

[Stevie]

I'd go with magnum and cut the bittering to 30-40ibu. IMO "hoppy" versions of existing styles should be high in hop flavor and within range, maybe slightly above range for bitterness.

[Iliff Ave]

I'd go with magnum and cut the bittering to 30-40ibu. IMO "hoppy" versions of existing styles should be high in hop flavor and within range, maybe slightly above range for bitterness.

Thank you. This was my main concern. I do want lager characteristics which probably become less and less apparent, the more the hops are pushed...

[Iliff Ave]

I would personally use those 2min additions as a hopstand/steep addition at 170F for 45-60min.  Then I'd ferment at the cold end of the yeast 48F-ish to keep the vigor down.

But, you could change nothing and still end up with a great beer, I'm sure.

I have stopped doing hopstands due to inconsistent results. It is difficult for me to cool to the right temperature and hold for the duration. With the added time, it just isn't worth it to me...

I have been doing really late boil additions to get a more predictable amount of bitterness with my procedures.

[erockrph]

I'd go with magnum and cut the bittering to 30-40ibu. IMO "hoppy" versions of existing styles should be high in hop flavor and within range, maybe slightly above range for bitterness.

I can't agree more with this ^^^

If you want the hops to pop a bit more, maybe bring the Munich down a bit to the 10-15% range. Once you hit the 20-25% range, the maltiness of the Munich starts to compete with the hops.

Also, if you can get liquid yeast consider using WY2278 instead of the 34/70. It leaves a crisper finish than 34/70 and lets the hops shine through even better. 34/70 is good, but I always felt like something was missing from my hoppy lagers until I started using 2278.

[HoosierBrew]

I'd go with magnum and cut the bittering to 30-40ibu. IMO "hoppy" versions of existing styles should be high in hop flavor and within range, maybe slightly above range for bitterness.

I can't agree more with this ^^^

If you want the hops to pop a bit more, maybe bring the Munich down a bit to the 10-15% range. Once you hit the 20-25% range, the maltiness of the Munich starts to compete with the hops.

Also, if you can get liquid yeast consider using WY2278 instead of the 34/70. It leaves a crisper finish than 34/70 and lets the hops shine through even better. 34/70 is good, but I always felt like something was missing from my hoppy lagers until I started using 2278.

I don't disagree - I generally shoot for something more in the APA range of abv and IBU when I make a hoppy lager/IPL. But the whole 'style' is pretty wide open - ie., some have noble hops, some have American hops, some are milder, some are literally IPA but with a lager yeast. I have made a few in the IPA profile range that came out nice. It's all in what you're after. The guy from Jack's Abby said in an interview that he's all about using clean lager strains to push the hops even more forward. The IPL I had from there was very much in the IPA approach.

[Iliff Ave]

Thanks guys. I have a lot to consider.

I am surprised in my current APA that the 20% Munich isn't more noticeable and how light colored the beer is. I had actually considered using 9L next attempt but thought that might over do it. I think I will leave that and see how it goes.

The goal with my pale ale is to do something right in between an APA and IPA (for my tastes) in hop character and ABV so that it kind of fulfills my need for hops without being too overboard and hopped to the levels of a lot of homebrewers. I think that is kind of the goal for the lager as well. Not quite an IPA but getting there. I may back off the IBUs a bit in attempt to get some lager characteristics through.

I have a pretty hoppy pilsner on right now so I am trying to brew something that differentiates itself from that significantly.

[Iliff Ave]

Any thoughts on water?

The current pale ale had a mash pH of 5.3 and 220 ppm SO4. I realize a lot of people have been dialing back SO4 but I am really enjoy what it brings to this beer.

Should I go with something closer to a pilsner water profile?

[HoosierBrew]

Any thoughts on water?

The current pale ale had a mash pH of 5.3 and 220 ppm SO4. I realize a lot of people have been dialing back SO4 but I am really enjoy what it brings to this beer.

Should I go with something closer to a pilsner water profile?

Go with what sounds good. If you're liking what that sulfate brings and you really want the dry finish and the hop character to pop, go for it. Pils for more subdued dry character. Balanced if that's your goal. It's a style without rules for the most part.

[erockrph]

Any thoughts on water?

The current pale ale had a mash pH of 5.3 and 220 ppm SO4. I realize a lot of people have been dialing back SO4 but I am really enjoy what it brings to this beer.

Should I go with something closer to a pilsner water profile?

Agreed. If you're shooting for a lager that's similar to your APA, then I'd shoot for a water profile in the same ballpark.

Go with what sounds good. If you're liking what that sulfate brings and you really want the dry finish and the hop character to pop, go for it. Pils for more subdued dry character. Balanced if that's your goal. It's a style without rules for the most part.