[fmader]

My unpopular opinion is that too many people reach a comfort level in brewing, stop learning, and think polite praise is a sign of quality. A lot of homebrew sucks. (Not that I go around saying that).

And I don't like Amarillo and Mosaic.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Seriously! Just because I don't overtly say your beer is s*** and I'm polite doesn't mean you should start a brewery.

And I may just be moving your direction on Mosaic... been struggling with that hop lately.

New England, Hazy or Juicy IPA's are a fad that need to stay in 2016.  Happy Brew Year.

Agreed.  I expect them tp go the way of the Black IPA.

I've never cared for mosaic. I like Amarillo, but it's not my favorite.

Not so funny story about cloudy NE beers. My local brew pub got a keg of 3F's Zombie Dust (Not a NE IPA) over the weekend. The first one was perfect and crystal clear. My second pour was very cloudy. I asked the bartender if the keg kicked on that pour. He said, "No. I just went back and lifted the keg to see how much was left. I must have kicked up the trub. It's actually better now that it's cloudy." Facepalm... No. Now I have one of the best and hard to get IPA's in the country that has yeast and whatever else unwanted sediment mixed up in it. These people believe that if you mix all the trub up, you get a "juicy NE IPA." I wanted to smack the guy.

[curtdogg]

My unpopular opinion is that too many people reach a comfort level in brewing, stop learning, and think polite praise is a sign of quality. A lot of homebrew sucks. (Not that I go around saying that).

And I don't like Amarillo and Mosaic.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Seriously! Just because I don't overtly say your beer is s*** and I'm polite doesn't mean you should start a brewery.

And I may just be moving your direction on Mosaic... been struggling with that hop lately.

New England, Hazy or Juicy IPA's are a fad that need to stay in 2016.  Happy Brew Year.

Agreed.  I expect them tp go the way of the Black IPA.

I've never cared for mosaic. I like Amarillo, but it's not my favorite.

Not so funny story about cloudy NE beers. My local brew pub got a keg of 3F's Zombie Dust (Not a NE IPA) over the weekend. The first one was perfect and crystal clear. My second pour was very cloudy. I asked the bartender if the keg kicked on that pour. He said, "No. I just went back and lifted the keg to see how much was left. I must have kicked up the trub. It's actually better now that it's cloudy." Facepalm... No. Now I have one of the best and hard to get IPA's in the country that has yeast and whatever else unwanted sediment mixed up in it. These people believe that if you mix all the trub up, you get a "juicy NE IPA." I wanted to smack the guy.

APA.

[HoosierBrew]

Not so funny story about cloudy NE beers. My local brew pub got a keg of 3F's Zombie Dust (Not a NE IPA) over the weekend. The first one was perfect and crystal clear. My second pour was very cloudy. I asked the bartender if the keg kicked on that pour. He said, "No. I just went back and lifted the keg to see how much was left. I must have kicked up the trub. It's actually better now that it's cloudy." Facepalm... No. Now I have one of the best and hard to get IPA's in the country that has yeast and whatever else unwanted sediment mixed up in it. These people believe that if you mix all the trub up, you get a "juicy NE IPA." I wanted to smack the guy.

Yeah, that's pretty ridiculous. Just like the quality of craft beer is spotty, so is the quality of the people pouring it. Just dumb.

[charles1968]

I would have to disagree with the temp control part (at the very least) on that list.   .

There's less need for it where I live (UK) - never very hot and not much seasonal variation. However, I do keep my ferments cool as I've had nasty hangovers from rare summer heatwaves.

I do think temp control helps a little. But it doesn't take beer to "the next level" - plenty of brulosophy experiments to back that up.

"The next level" is 99% placebo effect. That's not to say placebos don't work - they can be very effective, especially where subjective judgement is concerned.

[HoosierBrew]

I would have to disagree with the temp control part (at the very least) on that list.   .

There's less need for it where I live (UK) - never very hot and not much seasonal variation. However, I do keep my ferments cool as I've had nasty hangovers from rare summer heatwaves.

I do think temp control helps a little. But it doesn't take beer to "the next level" - plenty of brulosophy experiments to back that up.

"The next level" is 99% placebo effect. That's not to say placebos don't work - they can be very effective, especially where subjective judgement is concerned.

Like I said, I made pretty good beer in a cool basement and get that the climate is different as a whole in the UK. But calling fridge/controller temp control placebo effect just isn't accurate IMO. I do see it as 'next level'. It offers an array of benefits (reducing heat generated from fermentation, better control of esters, phenols and fusels, precise temp schedule for beers that need it, better foam at cooler fermentation temps, etc.) Regardless, I don't doubt that your beer is good. We can agree to disagree and that's perfectly fine.

[brewsumore]

  Has anyone had a batch go bad in a fermentation bucket due to a scratch in that is somehow infected?  Is this a thing?  Evidence?

Yes, many times yes.  Even soaking in bleach water for like a month didn't kill the wild beasts.  This occurred multiple times in a row so I know it was the scratch in the plastic.  All it takes is one infection to ruin many subsequent batches.  I lived it.

By chance would you still have the bucket?  I'm curious about the plastic type and what the scratches are like.  The buckets I'm using have no visible scratches and I've had no oxidation issues (with rack/dry-hop x2), and so the switch-over from glass has been great.

Yes.  I suppose you wanted me to send pictures.  I could but don't know how well they'd turn out.  Suffice it to say that these are white buckets (yes more than one) from the homebrew shop that actually say "brew bucket" or whatever the heck on the outside so they were made for this, and yes, the scratches are visible to the naked eye -- I must have impacted the sides with a spoon or whatever.  Contamination sources could have been several -- I have soured beers on purpose before, and I don't think that ever came out completely.  Also I have experienced wild fermentations, probably when a fruit fly or something climbed in through the tiny gap in the lid.  All of the above.  I found that even after a lot of cleaning and sanitizing, sometimes I would get a good batch, sometimes not.  Odds were about 50/50.  After this happened for the 5th or 6th time, I said enough, and switched to glass, and haven't looked back since.  Oh yeah...... and I did get an infection from dry hops once.  Now I soak my dry hops in vodka before adding -- not sure if that helps but I don't think it hurts.

I'm paranoid about using buckets over the fear of scratching them while nesting.

I lid them and stack one on top of the other, in a corner in my basement.  Problem solved.

[yso191]

I do think temp control helps a little. But it doesn't take beer to "the next level" - plenty of brulosophy experiments to back that up.
"The next level" is 99% placebo effect. That's not to say placebos don't work - they can be very effective, especially where subjective judgement is concerned.

By this logic no one would do anything to make better beer because it wouldn't make much of a difference.  Go ahead, you keep not caring about taking your beer to the next level - I choose otherwise. 

And I can easily demonstrate the difference between excellent and poor beer.  It is dramatic, and it is not rooted in confirmation bias, it is rooted in process, equipment, ingredients, recipe design, etc.

[curtdogg]

  Has anyone had a batch go bad in a fermentation bucket due to a scratch in that is somehow infected?  Is this a thing?  Evidence?

Yes, many times yes.  Even soaking in bleach water for like a month didn't kill the wild beasts.  This occurred multiple times in a row so I know it was the scratch in the plastic.  All it takes is one infection to ruin many subsequent batches.  I lived it.

By chance would you still have the bucket?  I'm curious about the plastic type and what the scratches are like.  The buckets I'm using have no visible scratches and I've had no oxidation issues (with rack/dry-hop x2), and so the switch-over from glass has been great.

Yes.  I suppose you wanted me to send pictures.  I could but don't know how well they'd turn out.  Suffice it to say that these are white buckets (yes more than one) from the homebrew shop that actually say "brew bucket" or whatever the heck on the outside so they were made for this, and yes, the scratches are visible to the naked eye -- I must have impacted the sides with a spoon or whatever.  Contamination sources could have been several -- I have soured beers on purpose before, and I don't think that ever came out completely.  Also I have experienced wild fermentations, probably when a fruit fly or something climbed in through the tiny gap in the lid.  All of the above.  I found that even after a lot of cleaning and sanitizing, sometimes I would get a good batch, sometimes not.  Odds were about 50/50.  After this happened for the 5th or 6th time, I said enough, and switched to glass, and haven't looked back since.  Oh yeah...... and I did get an infection from dry hops once.  Now I soak my dry hops in vodka before adding -- not sure if that helps but I don't think it hurts.

I'm paranoid about using buckets over the fear of scratching them while nesting.

I lid them and stack one on top of the other, in a corner in my basement.  Problem solved.

No airlock?

[brewsumore]

I do think temp control helps a little. But it doesn't take beer to "the next level" - plenty of brulosophy experiments to back that up.
"The next level" is 99% placebo effect. That's not to say placebos don't work - they can be very effective, especially where subjective judgement is concerned.

By this logic no one would do anything to make better beer because it wouldn't make much of a difference.  Go ahead, you keep not caring about taking your beer to the next level - I choose otherwise. 

And I can easily demonstrate the difference between excellent and poor beer.  It is dramatic, and it is not rooted in confirmation bias, it is rooted in process, equipment, ingredients, recipe design, etc.

+1 to the nth squared.

Still, all have the right to make the beer they like and like the beer they make - which ever way suits them.  I have no truck with that, but don't think I ever desire to drink mediocre beer.  And I've made plenty of that through the learning curve over the years.

[HoosierBrew]

By this logic no one would do anything to make better beer because it wouldn't make much of a difference.  Go ahead, you keep not caring about taking your beer to the next level - I choose otherwise. 

And I can easily demonstrate the difference between excellent and poor beer.  It is dramatic, and it is not rooted in confirmation bias, it is rooted in process, equipment, ingredients, recipe design, etc.

Yup.

[charles1968]

I would have to disagree with the temp control part (at the very least) on that list.   .

There's less need for it where I live (UK) - never very hot and not much seasonal variation. However, I do keep my ferments cool as I've had nasty hangovers from rare summer heatwaves.

I do think temp control helps a little. But it doesn't take beer to "the next level" - plenty of brulosophy experiments to back that up.

"The next level" is 99% placebo effect. That's not to say placebos don't work - they can be very effective, especially where subjective judgement is concerned.

Like I said, I made pretty good beer in a cool basement and get that the climate is different as a whole in the UK. But calling fridge/controller temp control placebo effect just isn't accurate IMO. I do see it as 'next level'. It offers an array of benefits (reducing heat generated from fermentation, better control of esters, phenols and fusels, precise temp schedule for beers that need it, better foam at cooler fermentation temps, etc.) Regardless, I don't doubt that your beer is good. We can agree to disagree and that's perfectly fine.

I used to agree 100%, as it was what I read everywhere on the internet. The problem is, the brulosophy experiments just haven't found much of an effect. I still do temp control, I'm just not convinced by all the claims made in its favour any more.

Historically it was a great way to maintain sanitary conditions as cool ferments excluded most bacteria and wild yeasts. Keeping those out meant a cleaner ferment and less funky flavours.

The idea that fermenting warm allows yeast to express it's character better through esters is dubious, I think. I need to see empirical evidence of perceptible effects - anecdotal doesn't sway me any more.

Happy to be proved wrong as it's very easy for me to control fermentation temp with my setup.

[Steve Ruch]

Not so funny story about cloudy NE beers. My local brew pub got a keg of 3F's Zombie Dust (Not a NE IPA) over the weekend. The first one was perfect and crystal clear. My second pour was very cloudy. I asked the bartender if the keg kicked on that pour. He said, "No. I just went back and lifted the keg to see how much was left. I must have kicked up the trub. It's actually better now that it's cloudy." Facepalm... No. Now I have one of the best and hard to get IPA's in the country that has yeast and whatever else unwanted sediment mixed up in it. These people believe that if you mix all the trub up, you get a "juicy NE IPA." I wanted to smack the guy.

Smack him one for us. 

[Stevie]

  Has anyone had a batch go bad in a fermentation bucket due to a scratch in that is somehow infected?  Is this a thing?  Evidence?

Yes, many times yes.  Even soaking in bleach water for like a month didn't kill the wild beasts.  This occurred multiple times in a row so I know it was the scratch in the plastic.  All it takes is one infection to ruin many subsequent batches.  I lived it.

By chance would you still have the bucket?  I'm curious about the plastic type and what the scratches are like.  The buckets I'm using have no visible scratches and I've had no oxidation issues (with rack/dry-hop x2), and so the switch-over from glass has been great.

Yes.  I suppose you wanted me to send pictures.  I could but don't know how well they'd turn out.  Suffice it to say that these are white buckets (yes more than one) from the homebrew shop that actually say "brew bucket" or whatever the heck on the outside so they were made for this, and yes, the scratches are visible to the naked eye -- I must have impacted the sides with a spoon or whatever.  Contamination sources could have been several -- I have soured beers on purpose before, and I don't think that ever came out completely.  Also I have experienced wild fermentations, probably when a fruit fly or something climbed in through the tiny gap in the lid.  All of the above.  I found that even after a lot of cleaning and sanitizing, sometimes I would get a good batch, sometimes not.  Odds were about 50/50.  After this happened for the 5th or 6th time, I said enough, and switched to glass, and haven't looked back since.  Oh yeah...... and I did get an infection from dry hops once.  Now I soak my dry hops in vodka before adding -- not sure if that helps but I don't think it hurts.

I'm paranoid about using buckets over the fear of scratching them while nesting.

I lid them and stack one on top of the other, in a corner in my basement.  Problem solved.

No airlock?

I imagine this is while empty. Not a bad solution.

[bboy9000]

IPAs are the autotuned pop music of the brewing world.  Flashy.  Popular.  Uninspired and requiring very little talent to produce.

Ahh.  That IS unpopular.  And I have to call BS.  Just like any other beer style it is easy to brew, but very difficult to brew well.

Maybe you just don't like the style, or the fact that IPAs are extremely popular, or both.  I was counseled once by a professor who said if you are going to judge a genre well, you must enjoy the genre.

I second the BS.  While I do agree with the first part of the statement (popular-  label a pale an IPA for marketing) I disagree with the second part.  It is hard to brew a good IPA.  I agree with Martin in that lots of hops can cover up mistakes.  That is also true with roasted grains in a stout covering flaws.  But even though both can hide flaws it is still hard to brew a good one.  I thought my IPAs and stouts were awesome until I acquired a better palate.

[HoosierBrew]

I would have to disagree with the temp control part (at the very least) on that list.   .

There's less need for it where I live (UK) - never very hot and not much seasonal variation. However, I do keep my ferments cool as I've had nasty hangovers from rare summer heatwaves.

I do think temp control helps a little. But it doesn't take beer to "the next level" - plenty of brulosophy experiments to back that up.

"The next level" is 99% placebo effect. That's not to say placebos don't work - they can be very effective, especially where subjective judgement is concerned.

Like I said, I made pretty good beer in a cool basement and get that the climate is different as a whole in the UK. But calling fridge/controller temp control placebo effect just isn't accurate IMO. I do see it as 'next level'. It offers an array of benefits (reducing heat generated from fermentation, better control of esters, phenols and fusels, precise temp schedule for beers that need it, better foam at cooler fermentation temps, etc.) Regardless, I don't doubt that your beer is good. We can agree to disagree and that's perfectly fine.

I used to agree 100%, as it was what I read everywhere on the internet. The problem is, the brulosophy experiments just haven't found much of an effect. I still do temp control, I'm just not convinced by all the claims made in its favour any more.

Historically it was a great way to maintain sanitary conditions as cool ferments excluded most bacteria and wild yeasts. Keeping those out meant a cleaner ferment and less funky flavours.

The idea that fermenting warm allows yeast to express it's character better through esters is dubious, I think. I need to see empirical evidence of perceptible effects - anecdotal doesn't sway me any more.

Happy to be proved wrong as it's very easy for me to control fermentation temp with my setup.

That point was that esters are more easily controlled by being able to control fermentation temps precisely, not an argument about warm vs cold effect on esters. As for Marshall, I appreciate his contributions but don't take them as gospel. Or any other one person's for that matter.