Author Topic: IBU Experimental Brewing Podcast  (Read 1676 times)

Offline klickitat jim

  • I must live here
  • **********
  • Posts: 8479
    • View Profile
IBU Experimental Brewing Podcast
« on: January 19, 2017, 11:39:25 PM »
Very cool podcast Denny and Drew. I am absolutely in no way surprised. Calculated IBUs only help when used as a benchmark for a specific brewer  trying to duplicate or adjust bitterness on his or her same equipment/recipe/ingredients.

Frankly, a brewer, especially homebrew, would do just as well just using grams of X hop for X time at X temp as their measuring stick. The use of IBU just implies a more precise and predictable outcome when that precision and predictability doesn't exist. Certainly not when different types of hops are substituted and only %A are considered.

Anyway- thanks for great info!

Offline narcout

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1753
  • Los Angeles, CA
    • View Profile
Re: IBU Experimental Brewing Podcast
« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2017, 11:50:20 PM »
It's interesting that Tinseth is based on whole cone hops.  I had never heard that before.
It's too close to home
And it's too near the bone

Offline HoosierBrew

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 13030
  • Indianapolis,IN
    • View Profile
Re: IBU Experimental Brewing Podcast
« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2017, 11:53:16 PM »
Yeah, pretty interesting. Good info!
Jon H.

Offline denny

  • Administrator
  • Retired with too much time on my hands
  • *****
  • Posts: 19470
  • Noti OR [1991.4, 287.6deg] AR
    • View Profile
    • Dennybrew
Re: IBU Experimental Brewing Podcast
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2017, 04:42:55 PM »
It's interesting that Tinseth is based on whole cone hops.  I had never heard that before.

Neither had we!  But his explanation makes sense...when he was developing his formula pellets were so bad that people didn't really use them.  Of course, because pellets break down so quickly protein coating isn't an issue for them as it is with whole hops.  I'm in contact with Glenn and we're talking about experiments to test the protein effect.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Offline denny

  • Administrator
  • Retired with too much time on my hands
  • *****
  • Posts: 19470
  • Noti OR [1991.4, 287.6deg] AR
    • View Profile
    • Dennybrew
Re: IBU Experimental Brewing Podcast
« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2017, 04:49:28 PM »
Very cool podcast Denny and Drew. I am absolutely in no way surprised. Calculated IBUs only help when used as a benchmark for a specific brewer  trying to duplicate or adjust bitterness on his or her same equipment/recipe/ingredients.

Frankly, a brewer, especially homebrew, would do just as well just using grams of X hop for X time at X temp as their measuring stick. The use of IBU just implies a more precise and predictable outcome when that precision and predictability doesn't exist. Certainly not when different types of hops are substituted and only %A are considered.

Anyway- thanks for great info!

Sp glad you enjoyed it, Jim!  It was cool to be able to have Glenn on the show.  I think his point is well taken...learn what you like and call that YOUR IBU scale!
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Offline klickitat jim

  • I must live here
  • **********
  • Posts: 8479
    • View Profile
Re: IBU Experimental Brewing Podcast
« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2017, 05:08:44 PM »
Frankly, I prefer low, medium low, medium, medium high, high as descriptors of bitterness rather than a number. Of course you need to use the same descriptors of hops flavor and hop aroma.

Offline tommymorris

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1998
  • Tommy M.
    • View Profile
Re: IBU Experimental Brewing Podcast
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2017, 05:19:20 PM »
My biggest take away is that the shape of the curves predicted by Tinseth are correct. The actual predicted IBU may not be correct.

To me that means Tinseth is still very useful. In your brewery, overtime, you learn to correlate what Tinseth predicts with the bitterness you experience and then you can use Tinseth to guide recipe design with respect to bitterness.

Where things get difficult is trying to understand bitterness from brewery to brewery since Tinseth may predict the same number for two breweries but actual bitterness, according to the Igor results, can vary significantly.

Offline denny

  • Administrator
  • Retired with too much time on my hands
  • *****
  • Posts: 19470
  • Noti OR [1991.4, 287.6deg] AR
    • View Profile
    • Dennybrew
Re: IBU Experimental Brewing Podcast
« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2017, 05:48:24 PM »
My biggest take away is that the shape of the curves predicted by Tinseth are correct. The actual predicted IBU may not be correct.

To me that means Tinseth is still very useful. In your brewery, overtime, you learn to correlate what Tinseth predicts with the bitterness you experience and then you can use Tinseth to guide recipe design with respect to bitterness.

Where things get difficult is trying to understand bitterness from brewery to brewery since Tinseth may predict the same number for two breweries but actual bitterness, according to the Igor results, can vary significantly.

Correct on all points. 
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Offline hopfenundmalz

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 8878
  • Milford, MI
    • View Profile
Re: IBU Experimental Brewing Podcast
« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2017, 03:23:13 AM »
It's interesting that Tinseth is based on whole cone hops.  I had never heard that before.

Neither had we!  But his explanation makes sense...when he was developing his formula pellets were so bad that people didn't really use them.  Of course, because pellets break down so quickly protein coating isn't an issue for them as it is with whole hops.  I'm in contact with Glenn and we're talking about experiments to test the protein effect.
Ask him about IBU from whirlpool hops, please.
Jeff Rankert
Ann Arbor Brewers Guild
AHA Governing Committee
BJCP National
Home-brewing, not just a hobby, it is a lifestyle!

Offline HoosierBrew

  • Global Moderator
  • I must live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 13030
  • Indianapolis,IN
    • View Profile
Re: IBU Experimental Brewing Podcast
« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2017, 03:29:37 AM »
Ask him about IBU from whirlpool hops, please.



Yeah, I'd love to hear his feedback on that.
Jon H.

Offline curtdogg

  • Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 426
    • View Profile
Re: IBU Experimental Brewing Podcast
« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2017, 08:53:02 AM »
I want to know about this "IBU/SG ratio.

Big Monk

  • Guest
Re: IBU Experimental Brewing Podcast
« Reply #11 on: January 21, 2017, 12:33:42 PM »
I want to know about this "IBU/SG ratio.

The BU:GU?

Offline BrewBama

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1496
    • View Profile
IBU Experimental Brewing Podcast
« Reply #12 on: January 21, 2017, 12:55:03 PM »
Huntsville AL

Offline The Beerery

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1509
  • More you know, the more you know you don't know!
    • View Profile
Re: IBU Experimental Brewing Podcast
« Reply #13 on: January 21, 2017, 01:26:59 PM »
I'm over here using the real ibu formula like... Huh?!?!.. ;)

W=  B ∗ V
      1000 ∗ A ∗ U

Where W is the total weight of the hops to be used in grams, B is the desired
bitterness in IBUs, V is the final volume of post boil wort in the kettle in liters,
A is the alpha acid content of the hops (4.7% AA means that A = 0.047), and
U is the assumed hop utilization.
For example targeting 16 IBUs and assuming a utilization of 28% (i.e.
set U = 0.28 and B = 16). Utilization will vary from system to system; if your
beer ends up too bitter, try raising the utilization to 30%, and if it ends up
not bitter enough try lowering it to 25%. For example, assuming your post boil
volume is 21 liters, your hops contain 4% alpha acids, and your utilization is
28%, you would use a total of 30 grams of hops.



Herr, wirf Hirn vom Himmel!
(Oder Steine, Hauptsache er trifft.)
Check us out at www.lowoxygenbrewing.com (Now with forums)
"Consistently successful brewers are invariably the ones who operate low oxygen systems." -George Fix Circa 1999
Taplist and Fermentation Cellar
"Progress is impossible without change, and those who cannot change their minds cannot change"

Big Monk

  • Guest
Re: IBU Experimental Brewing Podcast
« Reply #14 on: January 21, 2017, 02:42:02 PM »
It's interesting that Tinseth is based on whole cone hops.  I had never heard that before.

Neither had we!  But his explanation makes sense...when he was developing his formula pellets were so bad that people didn't really use them.  Of course, because pellets break down so quickly protein coating isn't an issue for them as it is with whole hops.  I'm in contact with Glenn and we're talking about experiments to test the protein effect.

I'm surprised more people weren't aware of the whole hops thing.