[Big Monk]

Everyone just needs to relax. We have chilled out in the last 3 weeks. We've backed off considerably on the technical stuff right up front.

Today, in this post, was just a silly misunderstanding. It never strayed off into anything too off the beaten path and at the end of the day some good info was shared.

I've seen philbrew's posts before. He isn't a beginner and he asked a good question and got some good answers.

Everyone needs to put the guard back down. Life's to short to pick fights with people on the internet. Everyone chill. Let's share what we've got and move it along.


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[HoosierBrew]

What we all need to remember is that this is a forum for advanced and beginner homebrewers. It must be a welcoming forum and we should all be disciples, in a way, for the homebrewing hobby. Every single one of us would like to see this hobby expand both in knowledge and in numbers of folks participating. We just need to be careful that, even if we think we know the best way to homebrew, we don't scare off people who can make PERFECTLY FINE BEER without having to study chemistry or micro biology.

The problem with this forum now, as it has been uttered over and over again, is that we are arguing about processes and putting doubts in people's mind that they could possibly  make good beer without following a narrow and defined path.

Honestly, had this been a forum I encountered in my early days of homebrewing I would have looked for another forum or given up all together. We are not answering peoples questions, we are bickering over process. And in some instances some are suggesting that you can't make good beer if you don't follow a precise and complicated process.

Those of you who like to point your fingers at the mods and say we are "digging in our heels" don't get it. we are charged with the task of making this forum work with many points of views, not one. We want to welcome new people in, not scare them away or convince them they need a chemistry degree to brew a batch of friggin' beer.

Re: Cloudy wort. My opinion is, yeah. You want clear wort. But, that doesn't mean that cloudy wort equals ruined beer. There are certainly reasons to want to have your wort clear. But if you just brewed your 3rd or 4th all grain batch and your wort is cloudy, that doesn't mean dump the batch and sell your MT.

Honestly, this is the last thing I am ever going to say about this because we just had it all out 2 weeks ago and I'm done explaining myself. If you don't get it, you ain't using yer noggin'.

Keith, I don't disagree with you, either. This also needs to be a welcoming place to ease new brewers into the hobby. Hopefully we can all  find a balance for new brewers and advanced ones, and keep the welfare of the forum in mind.

[klickitat jim]

I must have missed a few nasty posts or they got deleted... seems like a fine thread to me. Except for all these screwballs that like cloudy beer. 😉

[Big Monk]

I must have missed a few nasty posts or they got deleted... seems like a fine thread to me. Except for all these screwballs that like cloudy beer.

At last Jim! Our paths converge!

[The Beerery]

I must have missed a few nasty posts or they got deleted... seems like a fine thread to me. Except for all these screwballs that like cloudy beer.

Nope no deleted posts, just hair pin triggers.


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[klickitat jim]

I must have missed a few nasty posts or they got deleted... seems like a fine thread to me. Except for all these screwballs that like cloudy beer.

At last Jim! Our paths converge!

No, you still suck

Edit: that's a winky icon just in case your computer doesn't recognize it.

[Philbrew]

I do BIAB with a good squeeze or three.  My wort never starts out clear but my beer ends up clear and tastes good.  I see some comments from folks who say they love how clear their wort is going into the boil.  Why is that a good thing?  Can I improve my beer by improving the clarity of my wort?

I used to BIAB and do the same, never worried about it. I used to skip vourlauf and not worry about it. I can't say I ever really noticed an impact, I don't know if there is benefit for one or the other. I recently put together a HERMS and do a constant recirculation and the resulting wort is extremely clear, as you would imagine. I only have 2 beers with this new process so I can't comment on anything from that just yet, still waiting to taste the beers, not just for that but overall. I believe if you can keep a clear product through your process, it seems it would make sense to help with the finished product but I have zero comparison.

OK, I am the OP, damnit, and here is a post that tries to answer my question! And there's been some others.

Here's what I think I got from this thread (aside from the derailing junk):
Clear wort into the BK is not a big deal but may have an incremental improving effect on my beer. There is  some science there but can my taste buds agree?  Try it and decide if it's worth the effort.

[klickitat jim]

I do BIAB with a good squeeze or three.  My wort never starts out clear but my beer ends up clear and tastes good.  I see some comments from folks who say they love how clear their wort is going into the boil.  Why is that a good thing?  Can I improve my beer by improving the clarity of my wort?

I used to BIAB and do the same, never worried about it. I used to skip vourlauf and not worry about it. I can't say I ever really noticed an impact, I don't know if there is benefit for one or the other. I recently put together a HERMS and do a constant recirculation and the resulting wort is extremely clear, as you would imagine. I only have 2 beers with this new process so I can't comment on anything from that just yet, still waiting to taste the beers, not just for that but overall. I believe if you can keep a clear product through your process, it seems it would make sense to help with the finished product but I have zero comparison.

OK, I am the OP, damnit, and here is a post that tries to answer my question! And there's been some others.

Here's what I think I got from this thread (aside from the derailing junk):
Clear wort into the BK is not a big deal but may have an incremental improving effect on my beer. There is  some science there but can my taste buds agree?  Try it and decide if it's worth the effort.

YUP!

[dmtaylor]

There is  some science there but can my taste buds agree?  Try it and decide if it's worth the effort.

Exactamundo.

[Joe Sr.]

The problem with this forum now, as it has been uttered over and over again, is that we are arguing about processes and putting doubts in people's mind that they could possibly  make good beer without following a narrow and defined path.

Honestly, had this been a forum I encountered in my early days of homebrewing I would have looked for another forum or given up all together. We are not answering peoples questions, we are bickering over process. And in some instances some are suggesting that you can't make good beer if you don't follow a precise and complicated process.

I hesitate to post because I kinda want to walk away from this thread, but no one at any point suggested a precise and complicated process.  Derek mentioned recirculating which, while I don't do it, is something I think LOTS of people do.  There are lots of threads about pumps, right?

When I first started posting here, it seemed like the mantra was that you can't make good beer unless you're all grain.  I think that's BS and I've said so.

We don't all agree about lots of things - I've disagreed with you Keith about lots of things - but it seems like this place has become a bunch of guys in a bar looking to pick a fight over stupid stuff.

Like Derek said above, people need to chill. 

[majorvices]

I must have missed a few nasty posts or they got deleted... seems like a fine thread to me. Except for all these screwballs that like cloudy beer.

Nope no deleted posts, just hair pin triggers.


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I got 3 "reported posts", one of them about a moderator who "was showing poor leadership". So I guess maybe I jumped the gun? No hair pin trigger for me, I just find it ridiculous that someone reports a post for something like this and I guess those three reports colored my reading of this thread. OTOH I find the "hair pin trigger" comment a bit of a trolling comment. Maybe I am misunderstanding.

[majorvices]

The problem with this forum now, as it has been uttered over and over again, is that we are arguing about processes and putting doubts in people's mind that they could possibly  make good beer without following a narrow and defined path.

Honestly, had this been a forum I encountered in my early days of homebrewing I would have looked for another forum or given up all together. We are not answering peoples questions, we are bickering over process. And in some instances some are suggesting that you can't make good beer if you don't follow a precise and complicated process.

I hesitate to post because I kinda want to walk away from this thread, but no one at any point suggested a precise and complicated process.  Derek mentioned recirculating which, while I don't do it, is something I think LOTS of people do.  There are lots of threads about pumps, right?

When I first started posting here, it seemed like the mantra was that you can't make good beer unless you're all grain.  I think that's BS and I've said so.

We don't all agree about lots of things - I've disagreed with you Keith about lots of things - but it seems like this place has become a bunch of guys in a bar looking to pick a fight over stupid stuff.

Like Derek said above, people need to chill.

See my post above, but I was speaking of the tone of the forum in general lately. Apologize if I am now stomping in the mud too, but, like I said, I received three reported posts in my inbox and last night, after a very, very long day I finally sat down to look at this thread and perhaps those reported posts colored my perception. Skimming over the threads it seemed like needless bickering over a question that had a pretty easy answer. I felt like, had I been a new brewer being a visitor to this forum that I would have been turned off, hence my post.

And I said that was the last thing I was going to say about it but felt like defending myself as well. I knew as soon as I posted that yesterday that there were going to be folks pointing their finger at me saying I over step the line but the "digging in your heels" comment got to me. I don't think some of you see that the mods are not "digging in our heels" we are just trying to make sure this forum is well balanced for beginners, intermediate and expert alike.

[Phil_M]

The forum must be balanced yes. But in striving to help beginners we should not abandon advanced topics. How far should something like that be taken? Some may say that all grain is an unnecessary complication and that we should only talk about extract to better cater to beginners. Clearly that's an extreme, but I hope that illustrates my point: Not discussing complex brewing methods for the reason of helping beginners does both the beginners AND the advanced folks an extreme disservice.


The weirdest thing about using this thread as a platform for helping beginners is that Philbrew isn't a newbie. He's been around here a while, brews low O₂, etc. If we'd provided all this info to someone who'd just joined, yes I'd say we were feeding them from a firehose.

The problem with this thread is that yet again there's a useless debate going on...which I guess I'm contributing to with this post, but f##k it.

[klickitat jim]

Well, I apologize for any perceived negative input I gave.

Frankly, there is enough turmoil in my world. My Facebook is about dead from having to unfollow so many people. I've deleted all news channels from my TV. Now it's found its way into my beer forum. Fortunately I've learned enough that I can make drinkable beer. Maybe it's just time to call it a day.

Great people, great brewers, great info, used to be a great place to discuss beer 24/7.

[JJeffers09]

I think there is too many of us posting sober.  Jk

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