Author Topic: Brun Water Question for Pale Ale profile  (Read 2436 times)

Offline mlsouth

  • 1st Kit
  • *
  • Posts: 3
    • View Profile
Brun Water Question for Pale Ale profile
« on: August 28, 2017, 11:49:45 AM »
Folks after many years of brewing I'm getting into Brun Water but a little confused.  Brewing a Pale Ale on a Spike 15.   BrunWater is showing that I add 8ml lactic acid and 8.5g Gypsum to the mash (8.5 gallons water/20 lbs 2-row/1 lb C40) and 14ml lactic acid & 13g Gypsum to the 13 gallons of sparge water. 

Can someone check to see if I have done this right?  I added the lactic acid into the sparge acidification section and it turned green.  I added the lactic acid and the gypsum to the mash and it came out green.  But in the acidification summary it added gympsum to the sparge as well as the lactic acid.  Is this correct?

My city water here in San Antonio from Wards is:
pH 7.7
Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) Est, ppm 307
Electrical Conductivity, mmho/cm 0.51
Cations / Anions, me/L 5.6 / 5.4
ppm
Sodium, Na 26
Potassium, K 6
Calcium, Ca 68
Magnesium, Mg 11
Total Hardness, CaCO3 216
Nitrate, NO3-N 0.5 (SAFE)
Sulfate, SO4-S 12
Chloride, Cl 29
Carbonate, CO3 < 1.0
Bicarbonate, HCO3 227
Total Alkalinity, CaCO3 187

Offline mabrungard

  • Brewmaster General
  • *******
  • Posts: 2255
  • Water matters!
    • View Profile
    • Bru'n Water
Re: Brun Water Question for Pale Ale profile
« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2017, 11:57:25 AM »
That looks about right. The high alkalinity in your tap water is driving the lactic acid addition and your low sulfate content is driving the gypsum addition. The lactic addition is a little high, but shouldn't be over the taste threshold for most tasters. Bru'n Water is set up to dose both the mashing and sparging water with their fair share of the minerals.
Martin B
Carmel, IN

BJCP National
Foam Blowers of Indiana (FBI)

Brewing Water Information at:
https://sites.google.com/site/brunwater/

Like Bru'n Water on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/Brun-Water-464551136933908/?ref=bookmarks

Offline mlsouth

  • 1st Kit
  • *
  • Posts: 3
    • View Profile
Re: Brun Water Question for Pale Ale profile
« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2017, 12:02:36 PM »
Thanks-something better than all that lactic acid?   I usually use it since it really drives the Ph down for me on paler beers which between my German beers, Belgian beers, and Pale Ales is about 70% of what I make.

Offline rob_f

  • Assistant Brewer
  • ***
  • Posts: 117
  • Corcoran Brew Works, Maryland
    • View Profile
Re: Brun Water Question for Pale Ale profile
« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2017, 05:52:38 PM »
Phosphoric acid is considered more flavor-neutral.  At the typical 10-15% concentration available at shops you have to add a lot more of it than lactic.
Rob Farrell
AHA
CRABS

Offline mainebrewer

  • Brewer
  • ****
  • Posts: 395
  • Palermo, Maine
    • View Profile
Re: Brun Water Question for Pale Ale profile
« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2017, 08:03:17 PM »
Phosphoric Acid is available at 85% concentration from Duda Diesel.
BJCP Certified

Offline brewinhard

  • Official Poobah of No Life.
  • *
  • Posts: 3197
    • View Profile
Re: Brun Water Question for Pale Ale profile
« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2017, 08:12:24 PM »
Phosphoric Acid is available at 85% concentration from Duda Diesel.

Hmmmm....that's good to know! Thanks!

Offline stpug

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 689
    • View Profile
Re: Brun Water Question for Pale Ale profile
« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2017, 08:36:15 PM »
Phosphoric Acid is available at 85% concentration from Duda Diesel.

Hmmmm....that's good to know! Thanks!

I picked some up from them a couple years ago and it's been nice to have as an alternative to lactic.  It's flavor threshold is higher than lactic, and since it's a stronger acid it requires less per batch.  Win-win.  I still use lactic88 in belgian and german beers since that's more likely the acid in play in those countries (i.e. sauergut = lactic acid), or for any beers where the lactic contribution might be welcome. I also use lactic for inverting sugars.  Inverted turbinado with lactic is very tasty stuff; it's kind of plum jammy but without the pectic aspect (very fruit-like).

Offline mlsouth

  • 1st Kit
  • *
  • Posts: 3
    • View Profile
Re: Brun Water Question for Pale Ale profile
« Reply #7 on: September 02, 2017, 03:43:57 PM »
Stpug-that is great feedback and what I had been wondering myself.  I have three taps at home:  #1 is for German lagers, #2 is for Belgian Ales, #3 is for American/English styles.  I will use lactic for German and Belgian as I have had great results with that (a little acidulated for German lagers as well). 

On Brun Water I read the summary section as either using the minerals as listed or the acids as listed, but not both.  Not sure that is correct but nailed OG at 86% efficiency so now will wait to see how it tastes in a few weeks.  Need to get an automated Ph meter so I can be 100% sure I'm getting target Ph.  I also have noted in talking to several local pro brewers that they are all using phosphoric acid vice lactic. 

Thanks to all again!

Offline stpug

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 689
    • View Profile
Re: Brun Water Question for Pale Ale profile
« Reply #8 on: September 02, 2017, 04:26:50 PM »
Stpug-that is great feedback and what I had been wondering myself.  I have three taps at home:  #1 is for German lagers, #2 is for Belgian Ales, #3 is for American/English styles.  I will use lactic for German and Belgian as I have had great results with that (a little acidulated for German lagers as well). 

On Brun Water I read the summary section as either using the minerals as listed or the acids as listed, but not both.  Not sure that is correct but nailed OG at 86% efficiency so now will wait to see how it tastes in a few weeks.  Need to get an automated Ph meter so I can be 100% sure I'm getting target Ph.  I also have noted in talking to several local pro brewers that they are all using phosphoric acid vice lactic. 

Thanks to all again!

I use minerals and acids (or alkalizers when needed).  I believe you would refrain from using alkalizers AND acids; but not refrain from using minerals and acids (or alkalizers).  In other words, brewing salts plus acids is fine; brewing salts plus alkalizers is fine; acids plus alkalizers is NOT fine.

Phosphoric is a great way of attacking alkalinity without a flavor impact, and in many cases this is what you might want.  Lactic below a certain level can also be as flavor-neutral as phosphoric, but when you need above that certain level you run into potential flavor impact.  To me, they're different tools that are used in different scenarios; both are great and useful in brewing.

I look forward to your tasting notes when you finally get around to trying the beer.  Congrats on hitting excellent efficiency!

Offline leejoreilly

  • Assistant Brewer
  • ***
  • Posts: 233
  • Washington, MI
    • View Profile
Re: Brun Water Question for Pale Ale profile
« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2017, 12:42:27 PM »

Need to get an automated Ph meter so I can be 100% sure I'm getting target Ph.

Thanks to all again!

I've been using BrunWater for several years now. When I first started addressing my water chemistry, I bought a nice pH meter and monitored pH closely. After a few brew sessions, I noticed that by following BrunWater, my pH was ALWAYS very close to what I intended. I rarely measure pH anymore as a standard brew day process; no need to. I do measure occasionally at different points in the brewing/fermenting process, but more to satisfy my curiosity than to monitor and correct levels.

My point is that you may not need to invest in a bunch of expensive equipment, nor will you need to do much monitoring once you get comfortable with BrunWater and follow it faithfully. A relatively inexpensive pH meter may be enough.

Offline Richard

  • Cellarman
  • **
  • Posts: 60
    • View Profile
Re: Brun Water Question for Pale Ale profile
« Reply #10 on: September 22, 2017, 05:53:35 PM »
I'm in the same situation as leejoreilly. BrunMater nails my pH every time, but I measure during the mash anyway just to be sure. Water can change from time to time, acid malts vary from batch to batch, etc. I first bought a cheap meter, then got exasperated with its inconsistencies and bought an expensive one. Now it seems that the cheaper one would do as a sanity check.