[hike20]

I'm looking to try making a Dunkels Bock as something new. I'm not familiar with this particular style and am having trouble finding recipes for it. I find several recipes of Dopplebocks, Munich Dunkels, Dunkels Weissbiers. Is this basically a lower gravity Dopplebock? I'm thinking mostly Munich and Vienna with something for color. Do I need a small percentage of some sort of crystal such as caramunich or C-80 in there for more complexity or is that overkill?

[BrewBama]

You should probably use Munich and/or Vienna Malt and a small addition of Special Carafa I or II (depending on how dark you want yours) along with noble hops and clean lager yeast. I recommend the ‘special’ version because it’s less bitter.  I believe too much bitterness would be out of place in this malty style.

However, I have simplified my ingredients list so use pale malt across the board and a bit of pale chocolate for color in this recipe  along with California Lager yeast. Having said that this is my version to get you started which is low on the OG scale and high on the IBU scale:




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[dmtaylor]

Dunkles Bock is just a new name for doppelbock.  Same style.  Traditionally this would be all Munich, with maybe some Vienna or Pilsner malt if desired.  Carafa is often used in USA but is optional.  The key to this style I think, besides Munich, is WLP833.

[Robert]

Dunkles Bock is just a new name for doppelbock.  Same style. 

No!!!  Dunkles Bock is plain Bock.  The original Bock.  "Dunkles" distinguishes it from the modern innovation of Helles Bock, or Maibock.  Both of these are in the 16°-17°P range (sg mid 1.060s to low 1.070s.) This was the original Munich beer.  Doppelbock is a stronger, seasonal version developed from it, and weaker versions evolved into the modern Munich Dark.  All of these brown beers would historically have been 100% light Munich malt and a multiple decoction mash.   Since you're not going to do that (I assume you're not that masochistic,) you'll need some specialty malts to enhance color and malt flavor.   But since all these beers are really of a family, if you already have a reliable recipe for a Munich Dark or a Doppelbock, you could for a start try scaling that up or down to the Bock gravity range.

[BrewBama]

Dunkles Bock is just a new name for doppelbock.  Same style.

Though I am certainly no style cop, I didn’t know that. I thought Dopple is amber and the Dunkle brown



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[Robert]

^^^^
Some of the modern Doppelbocks are a little paler.  But as always with the sweeping attempts at rationalization by beer judges and style police, take those guidelines with a few grains of salt.  Moreover, Bock and Doppelbock have inspired a lot of new variations, the common thread being strength.  Randy Mosher's Radical Brewing has some interesting thoughts on Bockifying various styles, like Pilsner and Märzen for example. 

[dmtaylor]

Dunkles Bock is just a new name for doppelbock.  Same style. 

No!!!  Dunkles Bock is plain Bock.  The original Bock.  "Dunkles" distinguishes it from the modern innovation of Helles Bock, or Maibock.  Both of these are in the 16°-17°P range (sg mid 1.060s to low 1.070s.) This was the original Munich beer.  Doppelbock is a stronger, seasonal version developed from it, and weaker versions evolved into the modern Munich Dark.  All of these brown beers would historically have been 100% light Munich malt and a multiple decoction mash.   Since you're not going to do that (I assume you're not that masochistic,) you'll need some specialty malts to enhance color and malt flavor.   But since all these beers are really of a family, if you already have a reliable recipe for a Munich Dark or a Doppelbock, you could for a start try scaling that up or down to the Bock gravity range.

Oh yeah, you're right.  My bad.  Thanks for pointing this out.  My other comments still stand.  Stick with Munich and WLP833.  Yummy.

[Robert]

My other comments still stand.  Stick with Munich and WLP833.  Yummy.

I'm with you on that!  WLP833 is my new house lager yeast.  Loving it.

[Slowbrew]

From what I learned in Germany last week when you order a Dunkle, you will simply be served the darkest beer they have on tap.  They give you very strange looks when you start trying specify a particular beer using what we think are very specific styles.   

That said I did find some bars with Dunkle Weisen which were very good but at others I just got looks that simply said "stupid American".   

It reminded me to keep it simple and roll with what was served.  All good beers at every stop.

Paul

[BrewBama]

... But as always with the sweeping attempts at rationalization by beer judges and style police, take those guidelines with a few grains of salt...

I take all the style specs with a grain of salt anymore.

For me it’s all 2-3, 4-6, 9-12, 15-20, 30, and 40 SRM (Blonde, Pale, Amber, Brown, Black) and Stout (extra deep pitch black?)

No way can I remember any more than that. Which is why I asked based on Amber vs Brown (above).


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[Visor]

My other comments still stand.  Stick with Munich and WLP833.  Yummy.

I'm with you on that!  WLP833 is my new house lager yeast.  Loving it.

    I've never used 833 - getting viable liquid yeast delivered here is at best a low probability bet - but M-54 is one I am very familiar with. I'm sure you can make a very tasty beer with it, but I doubt it will bear much resemblance to the Dunkels Boch you are aiming for. I've never tried it at normal Lager temps though, so I don't know how it works in that situation. To my way of thinking, Cal. Common yeasts are for warm fermentation, if you're gonna ferment cold, use a yeast that's adapted for the cold.

[BrewBama]

I like that it ferments at Ale temps and clears well. With all the dark malts the nuances of the yeast will be lost IMO. If it was a Pils I might not go that route. ...but then again I might simply out of convenience. Cheers!


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[Visor]

I like that it ferments at Ale temps and clears well. With all the dark malts the nuances of the yeast will be lost IMO. If it was a Pils I might not go that route. ...but then again I might simply out of convenience. Cheers!


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   That makes sense.
   FWIW, my two most recent brews are beers that I normally brew with M-54 but this time decided to split the ferment between M-54 and US-05. The 2nd is still in the FV's but the 1st is my Wyo. Common and it is bottled & conditioned, the 05 version is by far the best iteration of the recipe I've ever brewed. I think that M-54 has just been supplanted for that beer. In both brews the M-54 finished faster than the 05, but ended a couple points higher.

[The Beerery]

From what I learned in Germany last week when you order a Dunkle, you will simply be served the darkest beer they have on tap.  They give you very strange looks when you start trying specify a particular beer using what we think are very specific styles.   

That said I did find some bars with Dunkle Weisen which were very good but at others I just got looks that simply said "stupid American".   

My exact sentiments when it comes to the BJCP and German beer classification.  Silly at best.

[hike20]

Thanks everyone. Glad to know I'm not the only one scratching my head about the new German style guides.