[KellerBrauer]

I’m reading a book titled: Homebrewing, Beyond The Basics, by Mike Karnowski.  In the book, Mike suggests using automatic dishwasher detergent as a cost savings measure over PBW. I was wondering if anyone has any experience using dishwashing detergent in their process.  The cost savings is quite significant.  He suggests an unscented basic detergent.

[ynotbrusum]

I use Craftmeister typically, but I use Oxyclean periodically and it works perfectly well, as long as it is well rinsed.  Warm water is best with Oxyclean, whereas Craftmeister works well even with cold water.  Just my observations, FWIW.

[denny]

I’m reading a book titled: Homebrewing, Beyond The Basics, by Mike Karnowski.  In the book, Mike suggests using automatic dishwasher detergent as a cost savings measure over PBW. I was wondering if anyone has any experience using dishwashing detergent in their process.  The cost savings is quite significant.  He suggests an unscented basic detergent.

You get what you pay for.  It will work.  In my experience, oxiclean is better than dishwasher detergent, oxiclean is bettter than that, PBW is better than oxiclean and Craftmeister is better than all of them.

[Robert]

I'm making my own cleaner now, as many others do.  If you study the patents for PBW and understand what each component is there for, it's simple, and automatic dishwasher detergent in fact plays a role, but it is not a substitute.  The primary ingredients are sodium percarbonate (found in Oxiclean) and sodium metasilicate.  You can buy these in bulk.  A small amount of certain unscented,  uncolored, automatic dishwasher detergents (you need to know their composition) is mixed in to provide key components like gelling agents, chelators, and surfactants.  You can easily make a product that outperforms or at least matches the commercial product at a tiny fraction of the cost.  But a single component of the whole, like Oxiclean or dishwashing detergent, will not be a viable substitute on its own. 

I agree with Denny that if you had to choose, straight Oxiclean would be better; but understand that it will neither clean nor rinse off as well as the complete formula.

[hopfenundmalz]

From Ron Minkoff's HomebrewCon  panel. I have not tried this.

Poor Man's PBW.
10 oz.. seventh generation dishwasher detergent - Walmart
16 oz Red Devil TSP/90 - Amazon
24 oz Oxy-Clean, no fragrance

Edit the Red Devil line has been updated.

[Robert]

From Ron Minkoff's HomebrewCon  panel. I have not tried this.

Poor Man's PBW.
10 oz.. seventh generation dishwasher detergent - Walmart
16 oz Red Devil TSP - Amazon
24 oz Oxy-Clean, no fragrance

I use 7th Generation, it's got what you need.  Proportions look just about spot on.  But note that should be Red Devil TSP/90, which is straight sodium metasilicate pentahydrate.  Red Devil also has an old fashioned TSP (if its allowed in your area.)  It would make a good cleaner, but not the same as PBW or as environmentally friendly.

And since Oxiclean comes in 3 lb tubs, and TSP/90 in a 4 lb bag, and 7th Generation automatic dishwashing detergent in a 45 oz box...  2 tubs of Oxiclean Free, a bag, and a box will get you a big, easy, cheap load.  You can also source pure sodium percarbonate and metasilicate even cheaper on Amazon.

[majorvices]

I mix up about half oxiclean and half TSP Substitute. Cheap as hell and works great. I usually use generic oxiclean too. That said, I often just use oxiclean it works great all by itself.

[KellerBrauer]

I’m gathering that Oxiclean would be the most appropriate base to build from, or use on its own.  I have found the non-scented, no-die, version to be quite inexpensive as compared to PBW.  I heard some time ago that TSP was no longer available, so I’ll have to dig into that and add it to my recipe; the “poor man’s PBW” looks very interesting.

I agree with you, Denny, “you get what you pay for”.  However, on my newly retired budget, I need to come up with ways to cut dollars out of my brewing, or give up the hobby all together, and that would be a really bad thing.

Thanks, brewers, for your help and advise!  My wallet really appreciates it! 

[Robert]

I heard some time ago that TSP was no longer available, so I’ll have to dig into that and add it to my recipe; the “poor man’s PBW” looks very interesting.

Right, TSP is not universally available anymore, but again, that's not what you want to make a clone of PBW.  It contains no TSP, it contains sodium metasilicate.   This is sold as a substitute for the old stuff.  Confusingly, Red Devil calls theirs TSP/90 (4 lb bags available on Amazon if not locally.)  They also still sell TSP where permitted.   But if you use Jeff's recipe with Oxiclean free, TSP/90 (or another brand of metasilicate) and not TSP, and the 7th Generation brand of automatic dishwasher detergent, you'll be right on the money (which you'll save a lot of.)

[hopfenundmalz]

Just to be clear, not my recipe. I posted what Ron Minkoff displayed at HomebrewCon, so it is his.

[Robert]

Just to be clear, not my recipe. I posted what Ron Minkoff displayed at HomebrewCon, so it is his.

You will not be held responsible for loss or damage resulting from the use of this information. 

[hopfenundmalz]

Just to be clear, not my recipe. I posted what Ron Minkoff displayed at HomebrewCon, so it is his.

You will not be held responsible for loss or damage resulting from the use of this information. 

Giving credit where due.

[majorvices]

TSP Substitute is available though.

[Steve Ruch]

I use Craftmeister typically, but I use Oxyclean periodically and it works perfectly well, as long as it is well rinsed.  Warm water is best with Oxyclean, whereas Craftmeister works well even with cold water.  Just my observations, FWIW.

That's why I started using Craftmeister.

[denny]

I use Craftmeister typically, but I use Oxyclean periodically and it works perfectly well, as long as it is well rinsed.  Warm water is best with Oxyclean, whereas Craftmeister works well even with cold water.  Just my observations, FWIW.

That's why I started using Craftmeister.

Yeah, same here