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Author Topic: Fermentation Schedule  (Read 1449 times)

TXFlyGuy

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Fermentation Schedule
« on: February 10, 2020, 06:56:38 am »
For years we did the initial ferment in a bucket, then would rack into another vessel to complete the process.

A professional brewer told me there is only one fermentation that takes place. The term "Primary" and "Secondary" only refer to the the vessels employed.
His suggestion was to ferment all the way in the initial vessel, then rack into the serving keg.

As we later upgraded to all SS equipment, his advice was taken. Allowing the beer to completely ferment in one SS fermenter. The beer was very good, and never had any issues.

Perhaps I'm a heretic? Does anyone else follow this single stage ferment procedure? We did, and with great success.

Offline Kevin

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Re: Fermentation Schedule
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2020, 07:03:16 am »
I believe you will find that many (most?) homebrewers today skip the secondary step. Even respected leaders in the hobby such as John Palmer who once advocated using a secondary vessel in the first edition of his legendary book, How To Brew has reversed his opinion in the fourth edition of that book. That being said, if you have no problems using a secondary vessel and it makes you happy then by all means continue to do so.
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Offline denny

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Re: Fermentation Schedule
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2020, 08:12:29 am »
AAMOF, if you search the forum for John Palmer's Ask the Expertsn answers, he specifically outlines why secondary is unnecessary.  You're not a heretic....you're just catching up with the flow of knowledge.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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Offline kpfoleyjr

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Re: Fermentation Schedule
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2020, 02:21:23 pm »
Quit that after getting a few “Oxidized” boxes checked in the Descriptor Definitions on my Beer Scoresheets.


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Offline dmtaylor

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Re: Fermentation Schedule
« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2020, 03:55:34 pm »
Even today, many homebrewers are afraid to keep the beer in primary for too long, for fear of the dreaded "yeast autolysis", which smells and tastes like burnt matches and/or rubber.  I think that's the main reason "secondary" was popularized, once upon a time.  While autolysis is a very real phenomenon, in the homebrew setting I have found that it takes at least 6-7 weeks in primary before this is possible, and even then I would say the risk is low to moderate, i.e., it isn't always a for-sure thing right at the 6 or 7 week mark.  It might take many months, or might even never happen at all.  SO... if you are an extremely patient or lazy brewer like I am, you might want to consider moving your beer out of primary at about the 6-week mark, just to be on the safe side with respect to autolysis.  But other than that, yeah....

I don't usually secondary anymore.  As a guy who bottles everything -- not a kegger -- I am still toying with the idea of whether it helps reduce sediment in the bottle.  I mean, since on bottling day some sediment inevitably gets transferred over to the bottling bucket, I do find some benefit in inserting a secondary step to eliminate the vast majority of the trub before bottling day.  But, on the other hand, like I said, I am also pretty damned lazy, and also a bit absent-minded..... so like for my last batch, I just moved the beer from primary to bottling bucket, did not do a secondary.  Maybe I should have, if I wanted a really crystal clear beer... which actually, yeah now I wish I would have.  But I forgot.  Oh well.  Just be gentle handling the bottles, and always leave the last half inch of beer in the bottle, problem solved for the most part.  For those of you who keg.... I'm not sure why you even read this far, I sure type a lot.  ;D
Dave

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Offline denny

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Re: Fermentation Schedule
« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2020, 04:00:56 pm »
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

TXFlyGuy

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Re: Fermentation Schedule
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2020, 04:05:00 pm »
My longest ferment time was less than 4 weeks, probably 18 to 28 days max.
With aging at near 32 F in the keg, the beer was always brilliantly clear. I cut off the bottom 1 inch of the pick up tube so as to leave any sediment in the bottom of the keg.

Offline BrewBama

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Re: Fermentation Schedule
« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2020, 04:26:46 pm »
I use floating dip tubes. Clearer beer at the top.


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Offline Kevin

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Re: Fermentation Schedule
« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2020, 08:13:57 am »

Brew Strong podcast 03-22-10 (http://www.thebrewingnetwork.com/post477/) starting at about 25:40 is the earliest reference I've found (so far) for the 'no need to transferr into a secondary vessel' statement (there's a partial transcript at https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/to-secondary-or-not-john-palmer-and-jamil-zainasheff-weigh-in.176837/#post2047670My favorite statement was where Jamil says "Stop getting the thing [How To Brew, 1st edition] off the internet."

Every time the topic of 'what book should I get' comes up I caution the poster to spend the money for the most recent version of the book rather than use the free version on the website.
“He was a wise man who invented beer.”
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Offline denny

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Re: Fermentation Schedule
« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2020, 08:40:08 am »

Brew Strong podcast 03-22-10 (http://www.thebrewingnetwork.com/post477/) starting at about 25:40 is the earliest reference I've found (so far) for the 'no need to transferr into a secondary vessel' statement (there's a partial transcript at https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/to-secondary-or-not-john-palmer-and-jamil-zainasheff-weigh-in.176837/#post2047670My favorite statement was where Jamil says "Stop getting the thing [How To Brew, 1st edition] off the internet."

Every time the topic of 'what book should I get' comes up I caution the poster to spend the money for the most recent version of the book rather than use the free version on the website.

Not only for the info, but because John deserves to be paid for his work.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Offline PORTERHAUS

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Re: Fermentation Schedule
« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2020, 09:19:34 am »
Secondary...? I ferment, carbonate and serve all from the same keg. Been doing it for a couple years now, I can assure you some of the Homebrewing Dogma is Bologna.

Offline fredthecat

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Re: Fermentation Schedule
« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2020, 12:41:02 pm »
there was a big concensus starting well over a decade ago that secondary is not necessary and a waste of time/potential source of oxidation or infection.

My usual schedule nowadays is roughly 28 days primary, then i rack it to another carboy in as cool a spot as i can find to clear it as best as i can for about one week.

i've tried not using a secondary (racking, storage whatever you want to call it) many times and I think

+ The beer seems slightly fresher tasting than beer I secondaried

- Beer bottled straight after primary has noticeably more sediment at the bottom resulting in a cloudier beer or necessitating much more careful handling and pouring.



In most cases I prefer clearer beer with less stuff in it and I secondary it for a week before bottling.

Offline EHall

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Re: Fermentation Schedule
« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2020, 01:10:22 pm »
Secondary...? I ferment, carbonate and serve all from the same keg. Been doing it for a couple years now, I can assure you some of the Homebrewing Dogma is Bologna.

so that's what's in bologna!
Phoenix, AZ

Fire Rooster

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Re: Fermentation Schedule
« Reply #13 on: February 11, 2020, 01:42:31 pm »
Secondary...? I ferment, carbonate and serve all from the same keg. Been doing it for a couple years now, I can assure you some of the Homebrewing Dogma is Bologna.

so that's what's in bologna!

Does your Bologna have a first name ?
« Last Edit: February 13, 2020, 02:09:16 am by Fire Rooster »

Offline EThome

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Re: Fermentation Schedule
« Reply #14 on: February 11, 2020, 03:11:59 pm »
Secondary...? I ferment, carbonate and serve all from the same keg. Been doing it for a couple years now, I can assure you some of the Homebrewing Dogma is Bologna.

so that's what's in bologna!

Does your Bolonga have a first name ?

It's O S C A R!  ;D
Not Alien to Homebrewing