Membership questions? Log in issues? Email info@brewersassociation.org

Author Topic: 100% Attenuation?!?! WT*?  (Read 2557 times)

Offline Richard

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1027
Re: 100% Attenuation?!?! WT*?
« Reply #15 on: August 25, 2020, 05:27:12 pm »
As others suggested and I was independently going to say anyway.... sounds like diastaticus contamination from the saison yeast.  Replace all plastic and rubber, including hoses and o-rings, and clean everything really well.

Use Iodophor for cleaning, because it will kill yeast.
Original Gravity - that would be Newton's

Offline dmtaylor

  • Official Poobah of No Life. (I Got Ban Hammered by Drew)
  • *********
  • Posts: 4736
  • Lord Idiot the Lazy
    • YEAST MASTER Perma-Living
Re: 100% Attenuation?!?! WT*?
« Reply #16 on: August 25, 2020, 05:55:48 pm »
As others suggested and I was independently going to say anyway.... sounds like diastaticus contamination from the saison yeast.  Replace all plastic and rubber, including hoses and o-rings, and clean everything really well.

Use Iodophor for cleaning, because it will kill yeast.

Only at a very high concentration.  I read a study a few years ago that said it's one of the least effective sanitizers.  I still use good old Starsan or bleach, trading off once in a while (and yes I know bleach has the disadvantage of needing to be rinsed off).
Dave

The world will become a much more pleasant place to live when each and every one of us realizes that we are all idiots.

Offline Brewtopalonian

  • Assistant Brewer
  • ***
  • Posts: 188
Re: 100% Attenuation?!?! WT*?
« Reply #17 on: August 25, 2020, 06:03:59 pm »
As others suggested and I was independently going to say anyway.... sounds like diastaticus contamination from the saison yeast.  Replace all plastic and rubber, including hoses and o-rings, and clean everything really well.

Use Iodophor for cleaning, because it will kill yeast.

No... Just... No. Iodophor is the least effective. I will pasteurize and then hit it with some PAA.
Keep It Simple, Stupid!

narvin

  • Guest
Re: 100% Attenuation?!?! WT*?
« Reply #18 on: August 25, 2020, 07:21:57 pm »
As others suggested and I was independently going to say anyway.... sounds like diastaticus contamination from the saison yeast.  Replace all plastic and rubber, including hoses and o-rings, and clean everything really well.

Use Iodophor for cleaning, because it will kill yeast.

No... Just... No. Iodophor is the least effective. I will pasteurize and then hit it with some PAA.

Regardless of which is best or worst, Iodophor is effective at killing yeast at the labeled concentration.  As a professional brewer,  you should know that cleaning is as important as the sanitization step.  If the fermenter has a ball valve, that's my guess since it's a hard to clean place that doesn't ever reach boiling temperatures.  Disassemble it if you can and hit it with an alkaline cleaner before sanitizing.

Offline Richard

  • Senior Brewmaster
  • ******
  • Posts: 1027
Re: 100% Attenuation?!?! WT*?
« Reply #19 on: August 25, 2020, 07:28:27 pm »
As others suggested and I was independently going to say anyway.... sounds like diastaticus contamination from the saison yeast.  Replace all plastic and rubber, including hoses and o-rings, and clean everything really well.

Use Iodophor for cleaning, because it will kill yeast.

No... Just... No. Iodophor is the least effective. I will pasteurize and then hit it with some PAA.

Regardless of which is best or worst, Iodophor is effective at killing yeast at the labeled concentration.  As a professional brewer,  you should know that cleaning is as important as the sanitization step.  If the fermenter has a ball valve, that's my guess since it's a hard to clean place that doesn't ever reach boiling temperatures.  Disassemble it if you can and hit it with an alkaline cleaner before sanitizing.

Right. I wasn't advocating the use of iodophor for general sanitizing. I use StarSan for that, but every now and then I use iodophor to make sure that there are no wild yeast or diastaticus that are sneaking past my regular cleaning regimen.
Original Gravity - that would be Newton's

Offline Brewtopalonian

  • Assistant Brewer
  • ***
  • Posts: 188
Re: 100% Attenuation?!?! WT*?
« Reply #20 on: August 25, 2020, 07:31:56 pm »
As others suggested and I was independently going to say anyway.... sounds like diastaticus contamination from the saison yeast.  Replace all plastic and rubber, including hoses and o-rings, and clean everything really well.

Use Iodophor for cleaning, because it will kill yeast.

No... Just... No. Iodophor is the least effective. I will pasteurize and then hit it with some PAA.

Regardless of which is best or worst, Iodophor is effective at killing yeast at the labeled concentration.  As a professional brewer,  you should know that cleaning is as important as the sanitization step.  If the fermenter has a ball valve, that's my guess since it's a hard to clean place that doesn't ever reach boiling temperatures.  Disassemble it if you can and hit it with an alkaline cleaner before sanitizing.

It has a butterfly valve which I disassemble every other brew for thorough cleaning. I use PBW at 150°F to clean for it to be most effective. I don't dare use caustic on home brew equipment, as I'm afraid of what it might do to some plastics. Thanks! I'll check the valve again, maybe something slipped by me!
Keep It Simple, Stupid!

Offline BrewBama

  • Official Poobah of No Life. (I Got Ban Hammered by Drew)
  • *********
  • Posts: 6100
100% Attenuation?!?! WT*?
« Reply #21 on: August 25, 2020, 08:53:11 pm »
Found it:  must be dogs and cats in the house:

... reminds me of the Dave Line book form years past when he said that if you didn't get rid of your pets you'd always brew infected beer.  There's science, where I take cues for learning the best practices.  Then there's experience, which shows us if the science really matters.

Interesting the differences in reports on the sanitizers.

I’ve read that acid-anionic sanitizers such as Star San are broad spectrum against bacteria and viruses, but not very effective against yeasts and molds.

Paracetic acid (PAA) and Iodophors kill yeast, mold, fungus, gram positive bacteria, gram negative bacteria, spore forming bacteria, viruses and blood borne pathogens.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
« Last Edit: August 25, 2020, 09:10:15 pm by BrewBama »

Offline denny

  • Administrator
  • Retired with too much time on my hands
  • *****
  • Posts: 27174
  • Noti OR [1991.4, 287.6deg] AR
    • Dennybrew
Re: 100% Attenuation?!?! WT*?
« Reply #22 on: August 26, 2020, 08:32:15 am »
As others suggested and I was independently going to say anyway.... sounds like diastaticus contamination from the saison yeast.  Replace all plastic and rubber, including hoses and o-rings, and clean everything really well.

Use Iodophor for cleaning, because it will kill yeast.

Only at a very high concentration.  I read a study a few years ago that said it's one of the least effective sanitizers.  I still use good old Starsan or bleach, trading off once in a while (and yes I know bleach has the disadvantage of needing to be rinsed off).

I remember that study.  Seems like it was bogus because they didn't use the Iodophor correctly
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

narvin

  • Guest
Re: 100% Attenuation?!?! WT*?
« Reply #23 on: August 26, 2020, 08:50:18 am »
As others suggested and I was independently going to say anyway.... sounds like diastaticus contamination from the saison yeast.  Replace all plastic and rubber, including hoses and o-rings, and clean everything really well.

Use Iodophor for cleaning, because it will kill yeast.

No... Just... No. Iodophor is the least effective. I will pasteurize and then hit it with some PAA.

Regardless of which is best or worst, Iodophor is effective at killing yeast at the labeled concentration.  As a professional brewer,  you should know that cleaning is as important as the sanitization step.  If the fermenter has a ball valve, that's my guess since it's a hard to clean place that doesn't ever reach boiling temperatures.  Disassemble it if you can and hit it with an alkaline cleaner before sanitizing.

It has a butterfly valve which I disassemble every other brew for thorough cleaning. I use PBW at 150°F to clean for it to be most effective. I don't dare use caustic on home brew equipment, as I'm afraid of what it might do to some plastics. Thanks! I'll check the valve again, maybe something slipped by me!

Now that I think about this more, it would have to happen on the way in to the fermenter.  Looking at the robobrew, the hot wort recirculation tube is separate from the spigot used to transfer chilled wort out.  If it's insulated like other all in one systems, it's possible that this spigot (which doesn't look like it can be disassembled) never gets pasteurized and there's gunk in there.

Offline Brewtopalonian

  • Assistant Brewer
  • ***
  • Posts: 188
Re: 100% Attenuation?!?! WT*?
« Reply #24 on: August 26, 2020, 08:59:49 am »
As others suggested and I was independently going to say anyway.... sounds like diastaticus contamination from the saison yeast.  Replace all plastic and rubber, including hoses and o-rings, and clean everything really well.

Use Iodophor for cleaning, because it will kill yeast.

No... Just... No. Iodophor is the least effective. I will pasteurize and then hit it with some PAA.

Regardless of which is best or worst, Iodophor is effective at killing yeast at the labeled concentration.  As a professional brewer,  you should know that cleaning is as important as the sanitization step.  If the fermenter has a ball valve, that's my guess since it's a hard to clean place that doesn't ever reach boiling temperatures.  Disassemble it if you can and hit it with an alkaline cleaner before sanitizing.

It has a butterfly valve which I disassemble every other brew for thorough cleaning. I use PBW at 150°F to clean for it to be most effective. I don't dare use caustic on home brew equipment, as I'm afraid of what it might do to some plastics. Thanks! I'll check the valve again, maybe something slipped by me!

Now that I think about this more, it would have to happen on the way in to the fermenter.  Looking at the robobrew, the hot wort recirculation tube is separate from the spigot used to transfer chilled wort out.  If it's insulated like other all in one systems, it's possible that this spigot (which doesn't look like it can be disassembled) never gets pasteurized and there's gunk in there.

If this were true, it would be an infection and not a diastaticus yeast contamination. If it were an infection, someone would have noticed an off flavor. Besides, I use my robobrew a little outside normal operating conditions having replaced the spigot with a ball valve and ball lock quick release. I transfer my wort in one pass through a plate chiller directly to the fermenter.
Keep It Simple, Stupid!

narvin

  • Guest
Re: 100% Attenuation?!?! WT*?
« Reply #25 on: August 26, 2020, 09:12:29 am »
As others suggested and I was independently going to say anyway.... sounds like diastaticus contamination from the saison yeast.  Replace all plastic and rubber, including hoses and o-rings, and clean everything really well.

Use Iodophor for cleaning, because it will kill yeast.

No... Just... No. Iodophor is the least effective. I will pasteurize and then hit it with some PAA.

Regardless of which is best or worst, Iodophor is effective at killing yeast at the labeled concentration.  As a professional brewer,  you should know that cleaning is as important as the sanitization step.  If the fermenter has a ball valve, that's my guess since it's a hard to clean place that doesn't ever reach boiling temperatures.  Disassemble it if you can and hit it with an alkaline cleaner before sanitizing.

It has a butterfly valve which I disassemble every other brew for thorough cleaning. I use PBW at 150°F to clean for it to be most effective. I don't dare use caustic on home brew equipment, as I'm afraid of what it might do to some plastics. Thanks! I'll check the valve again, maybe something slipped by me!

Now that I think about this more, it would have to happen on the way in to the fermenter.  Looking at the robobrew, the hot wort recirculation tube is separate from the spigot used to transfer chilled wort out.  If it's insulated like other all in one systems, it's possible that this spigot (which doesn't look like it can be disassembled) never gets pasteurized and there's gunk in there.

If this were true, it would be an infection and not a diastaticus yeast contamination. If it were an infection, someone would have noticed an off flavor. Besides, I use my robobrew a little outside normal operating conditions having replaced the spigot with a ball valve and ball lock quick release. I transfer my wort in one pass through a plate chiller directly to the fermenter.

Yep, good point. I guess if your fermenter cleaning doesn't fix the problem, you could try a batch in a regular carboy and see if it still happens.

Online ynotbrusum

  • Official Poobah of No Life. (I Got Ban Hammered by Drew)
  • *********
  • Posts: 4900
Re: 100% Attenuation?!?! WT*?
« Reply #26 on: August 26, 2020, 09:55:03 am »
Diastaticus sounds like the correct diagnosis.  I use Iodophor for sanitizing primarily, but occasionally I use Star San or the low foaming variant, knowing that I risk wild yeast issues; POF+ issues are a pain when you don't want POF+ flavors.  I am clove sensitive in the palate, so I generally avoid making saisons and I will order commercial saisons when I feel the desire to drink them.
Hodge Garage Brewing: "Brew with a glad heart!"

Offline Cliffs

  • Brewmaster
  • *****
  • Posts: 610
Re: 100% Attenuation?!?! WT*?
« Reply #27 on: August 27, 2020, 01:26:23 pm »
Not understanding the iodophor aversion some folks have. It's efficacy has been proven time and time again and is used extensively in the dairy and brewing industry.  Yes, the orange staining is bothersome and it isnt as effective regarding biofilms, but if you've got a biofilm anywhere you arent ready to sanitize in the first place.