[Iliff Ave]

no

+1

[narvin]

What's the finished pH of the beer?  A high pH (>4.5) can lead to a flabby palate and also point to suboptimal pH in the mash and boil, or a poor fermentation due to yeast health.

[HighVoltageMan!]

What's the finished pH of the beer?  A high pH (>4.5) can lead to a flabby palate and also point to suboptimal pH in the mash and boil, or a poor fermentation due to yeast health.

+1

Maybe I harp on this too much, but a lot of homebrewers ignore pH after the mash. It needs to be monitored and kept in check until pitch. After that, a heathy pitch and fermentation does the rest.

I doubt the off flavor, if it exists, is from the gelatin. I have never experienced that at all.

[Village Taphouse]

Maybe I harp on this too much, but a lot of homebrewers ignore pH after the mash. It needs to be monitored and kept in check until pitch. After that, a heathy pitch and fermentation does the rest.

I doubt the off flavor, if it exists, is from the gelatin. I have never experienced that at all.

We have discussed this and maybe we should harp on it more.    I think it was in Strong's book where he mentioned that the mash, the boil and the pitch all have their desired pH ranges and THEY'RE NOT ALL THE SAME!  My process lately has been to get the mash pH where I want it and also boil at that pH.  I believe I was boiling at a lower-than-optimal pH which may have brought on some stubborn haziness but I'm not sure.  Then when I have about 10 minutes left in my boil I add about 1ml of lactic acid which is supposed to help the whirfloc do its important work and it also brings the pH closer to where the yeast would like it too.  Some brewers have mentioned getting the wort to a pH of around 5.0 when the yeast is pitched.  I tried to do that but I end up closer to 5.1 or even 5.2 at pitch time and I'm squeamish about adding more acid at that point because I don't want to reach (or overshoot) a flavor threshold with the acid.  The results lately have been fantastic all the way around. 

[Bel Air Brewing]

It is not the yeast! Did yet another taste test with two identical beers recently brewed.
Two different yeasts.
Both beers are just fine. In fact, they are quite good if you like Czech Pilsner.

But I do have at least one beer that really has the soap flavor. A Munich Helles. Might dump it.

pH? Never check it. Don't have a meter for it.

[BrewBama]

…
pH? Never check it. Don't have a meter for it.

“If you don’t know where you’re going, you’ll end up somewhere else.” Yogi Berra

As a pilot you know you have to determine where you are to plot the course for your destination. If you don’t know where you are, any direction will do.

[hopfenundmalz]

…
pH? Never check it. Don't have a meter for it.

“If you don’t know where you’re going, you’ll end up somewhere else.” Yogi Berra

As a pilot you know you have to determine where you are to plot the course for your destination. If you don’t know where you are, any direction will do.

I've been asked why I measure pH by people who don't have a meter. My reply is that "you have a thermometer, right?"

It is possible to brew without any measurement devices, but that is mideaval brewing in my viewpoint.

[Bel Air Brewing]

…
pH? Never check it. Don't have a meter for it.

“If you don’t know where you’re going, you’ll end up somewhere else.” Yogi Berra

As a pilot you know you have to determine where you are to plot the course for your destination. If you don’t know where you are, any direction will do.

I've been asked why I measure pH by people who don't have a meter. My reply is that "you have a thermometer, right?"

It is possible to brew without any measurement devices, but that is mideaval brewing in my viewpoint.

Not arguing with you at all! A meter is on my list. Which one do you recommend?

Remember that after brewing since 1990, we only started taking gravity readings in 2020. As you alluded to, shows you can be a little medieval in technique, and still brew good beer! 

[BrewBama]

I have an old Milwaukee MW101. It’s an analog meter. Works great as long as I baby the probe.

However, I have to admit I don’t take pH every brewday anymore because I brew the same way every time. (Base malts + adjunct/character malts along with CaCl and/or gypsum, BtB, and a weak acid using yeast and sugar de-aerated liquor in the main mash, then grains that screw with pH after the main mash is complete) Now, I spot check every few beers just to be sure I am still on course, on glide path.

If I make a major change I take a sample for the first few beers to get a new baseline. For example, I brewed a KY Common with 6-row and a large amount (for me) of corn for an adjunct in my main mash last brewday. I took a sample. It was 5.4 at room temp. I then added the dark malts after the main mash was complete as I normally do.

[Village Taphouse]

The Apera meters seem very good.  I have one that has been very solid.  With Brewbama's "get your strike water to a pH of 5.5 prior to brewing", you could potentially skip the pH reading especially if every batch is brewed in a similar way (like BB described... I do something like that too).  But I wouldn't know that my water was at 5.5 without the meter or how much acid I needed to add to my source water to get to that pH.  Bel Air, you mention that your beers are usually outstanding, have won awards, etc. so it's surprising that you're not monitoring the pH  at various points along the way.  As Hopfenundmalz mentioned, it's doable (and in your case it appears very probable) but there is no reason to have a modern brewhouse without the proper tools.  These Apera meters are less than $100 and will give you a better picture of what's happening with your brewing.  Case in point:  One brewday this spring I had just gotten my mash started and took a pH reading and it was a smidge high.  I stirred the mash and took the reading again.  Still high.  Whoops.  I forgot to add the 3g of CaCl to the mash according to the recipe.  CaCl lowers pH.  I quickly added it, stirred, waited a few minutes and took the reading again.  Right where it should be.

[fredthecat]

The Apera meters seem very good.  I have one that has been very solid.  With Brewbama's "get your strike water to a pH of 5.5 prior to brewing", you could potentially skip the pH reading especially if every batch is brewed in a similar way (like BB described... I do something like that too).  But I wouldn't know that my water was at 5.5 without the meter or how much acid I needed to add to my source water to get to that pH.  Bel Air, you mention that your beers are usually outstanding, have won awards, etc. so it's surprising that you're not monitoring the pH  at various points along the way.  As Hopfenundmalz mentioned, it's doable (and in your case it appears very probable) but there is no reason to have a modern brewhouse without the proper tools.  These Apera meters are less than $100 and will give you a better picture of what's happening with your brewing.  Case in point:  One brewday this spring I had just gotten my mash started and took a pH reading and it was a smidge high.  I stirred the mash and took the reading again.  Still high.  Whoops.  I forgot to add the 3g of CaCl to the mash according to the recipe.  CaCl lowers pH.  I quickly added it, stirred, waited a few minutes and took the reading again.  Right where it should be.

Hey, apera pH meter is in a price range that is good for me. It works well? (just fyi in canadian funny money its more than $100 lol)

[Bel Air Brewing]

The Apera meters seem very good.  I have one that has been very solid.  With Brewbama's "get your strike water to a pH of 5.5 prior to brewing", you could potentially skip the pH reading especially if every batch is brewed in a similar way (like BB described... I do something like that too).  But I wouldn't know that my water was at 5.5 without the meter or how much acid I needed to add to my source water to get to that pH. Bel Air, you mention that your beers are usually outstanding, have won awards, etc. so it's surprising that you're not monitoring the pH  at various points along the way.  As Hopfenundmalz mentioned, it's doable (and in your case it appears very probable) but there is no reason to have a modern brewhouse without the proper tools.  These Apera meters are less than $100 and will give you a better picture of what's happening with your brewing.  Case in point:  One brewday this spring I had just gotten my mash started and took a pH reading and it was a smidge high.  I stirred the mash and took the reading again.  Still high.  Whoops.  I forgot to add the 3g of CaCl to the mash according to the recipe.  CaCl lowers pH.  I quickly added it, stirred, waited a few minutes and took the reading again.  Right where it should be.

Thanks for the advice.

Just like all homebrewers, some of the beers we brew are very good. Some are just Ok. And some are...I would rather not drink it!

We give more beer away than we drink.

[ynotbrusum]

Doing well in competitions is an indicator of a pretty good grasp on a recipe and process, but like you, I tend to be highly critical of my own brews.  I have a reasonably good palate, but when it comes to my beer, I tend to grade it below where it ends up in competitions.  As I have said before, I prefer to chase the unicorn on lighter, low ABV beers to see if I can make something that I think is acceptable to me.  I tinker with recipes, try different process changes and don't overuse harvested yeast (though many get right on stride after 5-6 pitches).  I don't use gelatin and I get close to perfectly clear beer after a short lagering (most of the time).

My water is RO, so I tend to use the same level of salts, BTB and Whirlfloc, as well as yeast nutrient and good O2 addition via "wine degasser" whipping on re-pitches.  I may have to try a gelatin pitch on a clean lager, just to see if I can detect any difference.  I suspect your palate is more discerning than mine (when I judge with younger judges, I always defer to their better "taster", knowing that my 60+ year old palate is not what it used to be!)

[Village Taphouse]

I feel like we all make beer that we like and when we find a problem then we lift the hood and find out what's going on.  I doubt that your flavor issue is related to pH but it could be.  You can't have water and grains mixed together at a pH higher than around 6 without having an issue.  Years ago if I made a pale-colored beer without any pH management, my mash might be  at a higher pH than it should be.  You'll get a harsh, grainy character in the beer with a very rough finish.  It took me awhile to uncover that and once I did my pale beers came out fantastic.  An example of how frustrating this can be, another brewer with better/softer/lower-pH water might say, "Huh.  I never had that issue before!".  No, because his water may not cause that issue.  I know a pro brewer whose brewery is doing very well and we have discussed brewing many times and he always says, "You're always getting into things that I don't think about... water composition, pH control, etc.  I never worry about any of that stuff".  It occurs to me that eventually there will be a problem that he doesn't know how to approach.  You may not need ALL of the tools ALL of the time but it's good to have them when you need them.