[Village Taphouse]

I'll have to check the temp of my "on-deck" fridge.  Last time I checked it I think I cranked it up about as cold as it could go.  Thanks to all for the help.  There are a lot of variables here, no question. 

[neuse]

Traditionally the way to deal with chill haze is to store the beer colder longer.

That works for me. I bottle, and the beer has a chill haze. But when I leave it in the fridge for a week (two is better), the haze settles out and the beer is clear. I do think the floating dip tube would help with this also since it will pick up the clear beer on top, giving the haze beneath it more time to settle.

Yep, same here.

He’s storing cold 5x longer than that:

…
Once the beer goes into the keg it sits at about 35° and that time might be short (like 3-4 weeks) or longer but I notice the chill haze even on beers that sit cold for 10-12 weeks.
…

Possibly the haze is composed of finer particles, taking a long time to settle. Or it could have become permanent haze. See https://www.stonebrewing.com/blog/miscellany/2011/chill-hazethe-more-you-know#ageGatePassed. It states “And normally, when the beer warms back up, the haze disappears. You can observe this after you pour the beer into a glass and watch it clear up as the beer warms. Or take a bottle out of the refrigerator and let it warm up, and it will also get clearer. But eventually, especially if the beer is stored refrigerated (as it should be) the haze particles will not dissolve as the beer warms, and it then becomes known as permanent haze. Permanent haze tends to clump together in the beer and stay there.” The article goes into some methods of correcting it, but maybe nothing that is practical for a home brewer and hasn’t been covered in this thread.

[Village Taphouse]

This is one reason why I'm saying it's not yeast or anything that a floating dip tube could fix.  Picture it:  I take a clear plastic cup and pour 2 ounces or so of somewhat warm beer because it's in the line and the garage is warm.  That beer is crystal clear.  Then I take a chilled glass from the fridge and tap cold beer into it... that beer is clearish but there is a haze.  As that beer warms slightly you can see it getting clearer and by the time there is an inch or two left in the bottom of the glass it looks pretty much like the warm sample.  This is chill haze.  Not yeast haze. 

[Megary]

This is one reason why I'm saying it's not yeast or anything that a floating dip tube could fix.  Picture it:  I take a clear plastic cup and pour 2 ounces or so of somewhat warm beer because it's in the line and the garage is warm.  That beer is crystal clear.  Then I take a chilled glass from the fridge and tap cold beer into it... that beer is clearish but there is a haze.  As that beer warms slightly you can see it getting clearer and by the time there is an inch or two left in the bottom of the glass it looks pretty much like the warm sample.  This is chill haze.  Not yeast haze.

I’m more interested in why you use a cold glass. 

[Village Taphouse]

This is one reason why I'm saying it's not yeast or anything that a floating dip tube could fix.  Picture it:  I take a clear plastic cup and pour 2 ounces or so of somewhat warm beer because it's in the line and the garage is warm.  That beer is crystal clear.  Then I take a chilled glass from the fridge and tap cold beer into it... that beer is clearish but there is a haze.  As that beer warms slightly you can see it getting clearer and by the time there is an inch or two left in the bottom of the glass it looks pretty much like the warm sample.  This is chill haze.  Not yeast haze.

I’m more interested in why you use a cold glass. 

Because I like cold beer.   

[BrewBama]

Maybe I don’t keep my beer as cold as yours so I don’t get the haze.

[MDL]

I use polyclar vt at 10 minutes left in the boil and I believe it helps with chill haze. Try a dose of (.5) grams per gallon of wort in the kettle.

I also use gelatin, whirlfoc, clarex and floating dip tubes but I agree the floating dip tubes are for yeast. I use the clarex for gluten reduction and I’m convinced it makes the beers more easily digestible    . No matter though because my original recipe was whirlfloc and polyclar which resulted in chill haze free beer.

When I brew my annual hefe I omit all of the above  and the beer is nice and hazy for most of the keg.

One other thing to check is your boil ph. What is it at the start of the boil and post boil?

Can you tell me how you apply the Polyclar VT?  Do you just add it as a powder, do you mix it with water, etc?

On the pH, I made a process change recently that seemed to be working nicely for BrewBama and I copied it.  Basically get the strike water to a pH of 5.5 prior to the mash and hold any [very] dark grains until the end of the mash and add them then.  As a result, the pH is falling in line for the mash but I have not taken the pH of pre- and post-boil wort for a very long time.  If I were to do that, what should I be looking for?  Also, I left out the fact that with about 10 minutes left in the boil I am adding a milliliter of lactic acid which addresses the concept that the boil pH should be one way but clarifiers like Whirfloc work better at a lower pH and the pH of the wort when the yeast is pitched should be lower than the boil pH as well.  I'll mention again that my beer's flavor is excellent.  All of the things I'm doing right now are producing delicious beer and I get compliments on all of my beers by anyone who drinks them so it's really down to this chill haze issue.

I just toss the powder into the kettle. Would aim for a final boil ph of 5.1 give or take. If you still have chill haze issues after all this maybe try extending your boil time from 30 minutes. I boil for 90 but it’s a very gentle low evaporation rate boil.

[Red over White]

I run a pretty simple routine to eliminate chill haze. Basically the final boil pH is 5.1-5.2. The last 10 minutes I add 2 grams of PVPP per gallon, a whirlfloc tablet and some yeast nutrients. Once the beer is been fermented I crash it as cold as possible, 30-32F. After crash cooling it I treat with gelatin. 1 pack of Knox gelatin added to water that has been boiled. I add the gelatin after I remove from heat.

My beers are very clear 2-3 days after adding gelatin and are polished in 1 to 2 weeks at the longest. They are just as polished as any commercial beer. I do believe the cold route is the key. The closer the beer gets to freezing, the faster it clears.

Do you have a cold side process for adding gelatin with the least 02 pick up? Having read your posts I have the impression that you are very technical post fermentation.  Cheers

[BrewBama]

Here’s a gelatin fining process. Using this method I don’t introduce [much] air into the keg.

1. Cold crash beer to induce chill haze
2. Use 1 tsp gelatin in 2/3 cup of water.
3. Let stand 15 min or so
4. Put it in the microwave for 15 sec.
5. Continue the 15 sec bursts until ~150*F (usually 4 bursts). This dissolved the gelatin and drives off most of the air from the water.
6. Pour the mixture into a clean, sanitized 2L plastic bottle.
7. Squeeze the air out and put on a carbonator cap.
8. Pressurize the bottle with a bit of CO2 until it pops back into shape (very short bursts required).
9. PULL THE KEG PRV to depressurize the keg!
10. Place a clean, sanitized jumper with a QD on each end on the bottle. Depress the QD plugger to force air from the jumper line and fill it with gelatin/water mixture.
11. Invert the bottle
12. Connect the jumper to the gas in post
13. Allow nearly all the liquid to drain into the keg
14. Quickly disconnect it before it all empties into the keg (you don’t want the air/CO2 mix allowed into the keg).

[Red over White]

Here’s a gelatin fining process. Using this method I don’t introduce [much] air into the keg.

1. Cold crash beer to induce chill haze
2. Use 1 tsp gelatin in 2/3 cup of water.
3. Let stand 15 min or so
4. Put it in the microwave for 15 sec.
5. Continue the 15 sec bursts until ~150*F (usually 4 bursts). This dissolved the gelatin and drives off most of the air from the water.
6. Pour the mixture into a clean, sanitized 2L plastic bottle.
7. Squeeze the air out and put on a carbonator cap.
8. Pressurize the bottle with a bit of CO2 until it pops back into shape (very short bursts required).
9. PULL THE KEG PRV to depressurize the keg!
10. Place a clean, sanitized jumper with a QD on each end on the bottle. Depress the QD plugger to force air from the jumper line and fill it with gelatin/water mixture.
11. Invert the bottle
12. Connect the jumper to the gas in post
13. Allow nearly all the liquid to drain into the keg
14. Quickly disconnect it before it all empties into the keg (you don’t want the air/CO2 mix allowed into the keg).

That's a very solid approach, I like that a lot. Thanks BrewBama

[chumley]

The esteemed Mr. Conn provided the best answer. Unless you are in hurry and need to take a keg to an event, let cold conditioning and time run its course.

I am old school. I still mash for 90 minutes, and boil for 90 minutes to up to 3 hours. I like how the long boil concentrates the maltiness of my brews. Its like braising a pot roast.

Time is our friend.

[BrewBama]

… let cold conditioning and time run its course.

…

Time is our friend.

More than 12 wks?!?!

I don’t mature nearly that long and *never* get chill haze.  (I know…. Never say never)

[purduekenn]

Do you use floating dip tubes? I have decided they really help.

And a hair brained idea…
Maybe you should try pouring all the trub into the fermenter. That’s what I do. I get clear beer.

I have also noticed that beer with more trub in the fermenter = clearer beer from the keg.

[Village Taphouse]

… let cold conditioning and time run its course.

…

Time is our friend.

More than 12 wks?!?!

I don’t mature nearly that long and *never* get chill haze.  (I know…. Never say never)

Here's my take:  Everyone has their own set of variables.  There could be something with my water or my process, etc. that is creating the chill haze.  Others may let their beer sit cold for a month and the beer serves clear so "allowing the beer to sit cold" sounds like solid advice and it probably is.  I'm not doubting or questioning anyone's advice but I feel like it could be something a little more complicated than this.  Yes, I have let beer sit cold for 12 weeks and there is chill haze.  Also, on the concept of trub in the fermenter, I had some runoff issues on my last batch and my volume seemed slightly low.  I also used more hops than usual (around 4 ounces total) and as a result my transfer from kettle to fermenter had some additional trub in it.  I thought of this thread and wondered if this beer would be free of chill haze.  It's a pale gold lager so we'll see. 

[kramerog]

Are you getting a good hot break in the boil?