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Author Topic: WLP802 Fermentation temperature  (Read 910 times)

Offline robflott

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WLP802 Fermentation temperature
« on: February 03, 2023, 12:05:57 pm »
Will WLP802 adequately ferment at 48 degrees?
If so any suggestions on how long to ferment at this temperature.

OG 1.056...and ideally FG 1.012

TIA

Offline HopDen

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Re: WLP802 Fermentation temperature
« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2023, 02:46:04 pm »
Will WLP802 adequately ferment at 48 degrees?
If so any suggestions on how long to ferment at this temperature.

OG 1.056...and ideally FG 1.012

TIA

Make a starter, aerate the wort and pitch at 55* let it get going and then lower temp to 48* I currently have this yeast fermenting a Marzen. If pitched at 48 it will be sluggish to start in my experience.  To answer your question about time, it will be done when it's done.

What are you making??

Offline robflott

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Re: WLP802 Fermentation temperature
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2023, 09:34:56 pm »
Czech Pilsner.

Offline erockrph

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Re: WLP802 Fermentation temperature
« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2023, 09:05:28 am »
Will WLP802 adequately ferment at 48 degrees?
If so any suggestions on how long to ferment at this temperature.

OG 1.056...and ideally FG 1.012

TIA

Make a starter, aerate the wort and pitch at 55* let it get going and then lower temp to 48* I currently have this yeast fermenting a Marzen. If pitched at 48 it will be sluggish to start in my experience.  To answer your question about time, it will be done when it's done.

What are you making??
I never understood the logic behind this. Yeast produce the most esters at the start of fermentation. Low fermentation temps are generally meant to reduce ester formation. So, to me at least, it seems that you lose the benefit of the lower fermentation temps by pitching warm; you might as well hold it at pitch temps and let it go. You're looking for a sluggish start, which is why you pitch a bigger starter for lager fermentations.

That being said, in practice this may work just fine. Then again, in practice I've never found a yeast that needs to be fermented at 48F (although, I admit that I've never used WLP802 specifically)
Eric B.

Finally got around to starting a homebrewing blog: The Hop Whisperer

Offline HopDen

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Re: WLP802 Fermentation temperature
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2023, 01:07:47 pm »
Will WLP802 adequately ferment at 48 degrees?
If so any suggestions on how long to ferment at this temperature.

OG 1.056...and ideally FG 1.012

TIA

Make a starter, aerate the wort and pitch at 55* let it get going and then lower temp to 48* I currently have this yeast fermenting a Marzen. If pitched at 48 it will be sluggish to start in my experience.  To answer your question about time, it will be done when it's done.

What are you making??
I never understood the logic behind this. Yeast produce the most esters at the start of fermentation. Low fermentation temps are generally meant to reduce ester formation. So, to me at least, it seems that you lose the benefit of the lower fermentation temps by pitching warm; you might as well hold it at pitch temps and let it go. You're looking for a sluggish start, which is why you pitch a bigger starter for lager fermentations.

That being said, in practice this may work just fine. Then again, in practice I've never found a yeast that needs to be fermented at 48F (although, I admit that I've never used WLP802 specifically)

The logic behind it, at least in my experience, is that 55* isn't that warm, just warmer than fermenting temps and will get it moving along with a healthy starter and O2. Lowering once it takes off to your desired ferm temp. I don't see how a 9-10% temp difference would create enough of an increase in esters that you could perceive it in that span of time. I may be completely wrong though. If someone has data on that, please post. 

I may not understand what you mean by "You're looking for a sluggish start, which is why you pitch a bigger starter for lager fermentations". Isn't the practice of pitching large to get your fermentation started more quickly because of the lower pitch temp? Can you please explain ?


Offline erockrph

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Re: WLP802 Fermentation temperature
« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2023, 07:23:05 am »
Will WLP802 adequately ferment at 48 degrees?
If so any suggestions on how long to ferment at this temperature.

OG 1.056...and ideally FG 1.012

TIA

Make a starter, aerate the wort and pitch at 55* let it get going and then lower temp to 48* I currently have this yeast fermenting a Marzen. If pitched at 48 it will be sluggish to start in my experience.  To answer your question about time, it will be done when it's done.

What are you making??
I never understood the logic behind this. Yeast produce the most esters at the start of fermentation. Low fermentation temps are generally meant to reduce ester formation. So, to me at least, it seems that you lose the benefit of the lower fermentation temps by pitching warm; you might as well hold it at pitch temps and let it go. You're looking for a sluggish start, which is why you pitch a bigger starter for lager fermentations.

That being said, in practice this may work just fine. Then again, in practice I've never found a yeast that needs to be fermented at 48F (although, I admit that I've never used WLP802 specifically)

The logic behind it, at least in my experience, is that 55* isn't that warm, just warmer than fermenting temps and will get it moving along with a healthy starter and O2. Lowering once it takes off to your desired ferm temp. I don't see how a 9-10% temp difference would create enough of an increase in esters that you could perceive it in that span of time. I may be completely wrong though. If someone has data on that, please post. 

I may not understand what you mean by "You're looking for a sluggish start, which is why you pitch a bigger starter for lager fermentations". Isn't the practice of pitching large to get your fermentation started more quickly because of the lower pitch temp? Can you please explain ?
What I meant is that you actually want a slow start (specifically, a slower growth phase) to lager fermentation, to minimize ester formation. Pitching a bigger starter is how you compensate for the slower growth phase at the start of a lager fermentation. You start with a higher cell count, so you don't need replication to be as vigorous.

I guess my point is more that if you can pitch warmer with no ill effects, I don't see why there would be any benefit to lowering the temps to finish up fermentation. If you can pitch and hold it at 55 to start, you can probably finish out the fermentation at that temp without an issue. And on the flip side, if you want to ferment at 48F, then you should pitch at that temp to see the most benefit from fermenting at that temp. Pitch a large, healthy starter and let the yeast do their thing.
Eric B.

Finally got around to starting a homebrewing blog: The Hop Whisperer

Offline HopDen

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Re: WLP802 Fermentation temperature
« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2023, 07:40:04 am »
Will WLP802 adequately ferment at 48 degrees?
If so any suggestions on how long to ferment at this temperature.

OG 1.056...and ideally FG 1.012

TIA

Make a starter, aerate the wort and pitch at 55* let it get going and then lower temp to 48* I currently have this yeast fermenting a Marzen. If pitched at 48 it will be sluggish to start in my experience.  To answer your question about time, it will be done when it's done.

What are you making??
I never understood the logic behind this. Yeast produce the most esters at the start of fermentation. Low fermentation temps are generally meant to reduce ester formation. So, to me at least, it seems that you lose the benefit of the lower fermentation temps by pitching warm; you might as well hold it at pitch temps and let it go. You're looking for a sluggish start, which is why you pitch a bigger starter for lager fermentations.

That being said, in practice this may work just fine. Then again, in practice I've never found a yeast that needs to be fermented at 48F (although, I admit that I've never used WLP802 specifically)

The logic behind it, at least in my experience, is that 55* isn't that warm, just warmer than fermenting temps and will get it moving along with a healthy starter and O2. Lowering once it takes off to your desired ferm temp. I don't see how a 9-10% temp difference would create enough of an increase in esters that you could perceive it in that span of time. I may be completely wrong though. If someone has data on that, please post. 

I may not understand what you mean by "You're looking for a sluggish start, which is why you pitch a bigger starter for lager fermentations". Isn't the practice of pitching large to get your fermentation started more quickly because of the lower pitch temp? Can you please explain ?
What I meant is that you actually want a slow start (specifically, a slower growth phase) to lager fermentation, to minimize ester formation. Pitching a bigger starter is how you compensate for the slower growth phase at the start of a lager fermentation. You start with a higher cell count, so you don't need replication to be as vigorous.

I guess my point is more that if you can pitch warmer with no ill effects, I don't see why there would be any benefit to lowering the temps to finish up fermentation. If you can pitch and hold it at 55 to start, you can probably finish out the fermentation at that temp without an issue. And on the flip side, if you want to ferment at 48F, then you should pitch at that temp to see the most benefit from fermenting at that temp. Pitch a large, healthy starter and let the yeast do their thing.

Thanks Eric,
Next go with 802 I am pitching and staying at 48* Will compare notes. I always pitched lager yeast a bit warmer then lowering thinking that the lag time was not beneficial.
Cheers!

Offline erockrph

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Re: WLP802 Fermentation temperature
« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2023, 09:08:11 am »
I'm curious to hear your results!
Eric B.

Finally got around to starting a homebrewing blog: The Hop Whisperer

Offline HopDen

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Re: WLP802 Fermentation temperature
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2023, 11:34:29 am »
I'm curious to hear your results!

Same here but i don't think it's going to be an apple to apple comparison. The next brew w/802 will be the third pitch and collection of this yeast.

Offline lupulus

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Re: WLP802 Fermentation temperature
« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2023, 11:53:52 am »
All lager yeasts that I know of (many) ferment at 48C given sufficient yeast and yeast vitality.
The pro recommended method to start a yeast is to start cold eg 43F and let it ramp slowly to your temp ie 48F.
The ideal pitch would be about 6-8 packs of just-made yeast for 5-6 gallons, or similar volume from a recent starter.

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