[ScallyWag]

Let's call it a quasi-Dunkel, so as not to get too pharisaic.  (Not concerned about "being true to style" or competition.)

In a recipe for a mostly Munich-based lager that would otherwise qualify as a Dunkel, what would be bad [/good] about adding a half pound of D-90 candi syrup? 

Has anyone tried this?  Pros, cons?

Or how about in a Dunkelweizen? 

[denny]

Depends on if you want it to be to style. If not, go ahead.  But my real question is why? How do you envision the beer?

[fredthecat]

Let's call it a quasi-Dunkel, so as not to get too pharisaic.  (Not concerned about "being true to style" or competition.)

In a recipe for a mostly Munich-based lager that would otherwise qualify as a Dunkel, what would be bad [/good] about adding a half pound of D-90 candi syrup? 

Has anyone tried this?  Pros, cons?

Or how about in a Dunkelweizen?

dunkel is a style that could be interpreted many, many ways. i made one this winter and i find it okay, but not amazing and not as malty as i expected. mine was 48/48 munich 2 and pils and 2% carafa 3, 2% caraaroma. not getting anything i perceive as cara-aroma, carafa's flavour is overpowering for the style, though i wanted it dark.

you could do it in so many ways, ie. 100% munich1 (not hitting dark colour), mostly pils, small munich and small sinamar/black malt/carafa 3 etc, US style 2row, crystal something and black malt for colour, consider all vienna with a bit of colouring malt. various bitterness levels.

i think going with "tradition" in this case as a perceived traditional style is one way to do it, but if i did it again i would make a dark/black lager and ignore the labeling.

i know i didnt address your point of candy syrup, but i think if you were to, forget about the "dunkel" concept and make a dark lager how you want, ie. dark fruit, toffee flavours and build it that way if you were to include candi syrup, and so dont start with the supposition of needing to use munich malt.

if anything i'd like to hear the results of sugar with lager yeast, a not so commonly used combination.

[ynotbrusum]

For me, a 100% Munich Malt with a bit of coloring is the preferred way to make it.  Color with a touch of Carafa II or Sinamar to keep the flavor unaffected.  It is a style that should be at a minimum - medium body, yet easy drinking, for sure.

[ScallyWag]

Yeah, I should've given a bit more context.

I'm at the tail end of my lager season (no temp controls, but basement should still be good for a few weeks) and I have some lager slurries [yeast cakes?] that I've been using all winter with great results.  S-189, and Diamond, both on about the 4th or 5th generation, I don't remember.  I wanted to get one more beer out them before moving to "ale season" and dunkel is a style I like brewing and drinking.

I have some Candi Syrup on hand, and I don't think I'll be making any Belgian beers this year, and maybe not next year either.  I thought I might make a dubbel or Quad or Belgian Dark Strong, etc., that's why I have it, but I won't be brewing during the months that my basement temperatures would be ideal (probably out backpacking for a couple of months).

Sure, the Candi might still be good in the fridge until 2025, but since I'm going dark malty munichy lager on my next brewday, I was thinking I might kick it up to a higher OG with the syrup, or add it to the fermenter later, or... I don't know.  Curious to see what would happen.

I guess I should just do it and report back if it worked out or not.  Just wanted to see if anyone has gone that direction and whether it is probably going to disappoint.  Worst case scenario, I have a Dark Strong Lager or what-have-you, that will probably taste good enough when I'm off the trail and haven't had any beer for a few months.

[denny]

FWIW I have used candi syrup 5+ years old.

[ScallyWag]

FWIW I have used candi syrup 5+ years old.

Cool.  Thanks.

It suddenly occurred to me, since I am doing split batches anyway (one with the S-189, the other with the Diamond) and since I have way more slurry than I need, I'll split the regular wort into 4 FVs; do 2 as normal dunkels and the other 2 identical except adding some Candi-90 to those fermenters, and see what I get.

Then I'll have a tasting party and compare a flight of all 4 of them.  (After a few flights, it may not make any difference.)

[chumley]

Call it a bruin or brune instead of a dunkel and you're set.

[ScallyWag]

Call it a bruin or brune instead of a dunkel and you're set.

Hey, thanks!  I'll Google up some recipes and browse them, to see what that style is typically going for.  I think I've seen the term used, or at least seen it on bottles, but I know nothing about it as a style.

[BrewBama]

Call it a bruin or brune instead of a dunkel and you're set.

Hey, thanks!  I'll Google up some recipes and browse them, to see what that style is typically going for.  I think I've seen the term used, or at least seen it on bottles, but I know nothing about it as a style.

Try www.Candisyrup.com for recipes to use Candi Syrup in like this one .

[ScallyWag]

Call it a bruin or brune instead of a dunkel and you're set.

Hey, thanks!  I'll Google up some recipes and browse them, to see what that style is typically going for.  I think I've seen the term used, or at least seen it on bottles, but I know nothing about it as a style.

Try www.Candisyrup.com for recipes to use Candi Syrup in like this one .

And thanks to you too, sir!

[ScallyWag]

Just to update a bit, I didn't use the D-90 in a dunkel, but I did use the D-90 later in a split-batch of a dunkelweisen that used Munich Classic (ale) yeast.

The regular dunkelweisen batch (without the Candi-90) was decent and enjoyable as a generic beer, but didn't get me the hefe character I was hoping for from the Munich Classic Hefe yeast.  But the split-batch using the same wort but with the D-90 syrup in the FV came out very nice.  Still not the hefe character I wanted, but a nice quasi-Dubbel.  I may use that recipe in the future as a basis for a new Dubbel recipe that I'll start tweaking.  Not sure I'll use the Munich Classic again though, or if I do I'll blend it with another yeast that gives me more character.

Incidentally, the recipes at the CandiSyrup website that BrewBama pointed out to me, include a Munich Dunkel that uses their D-45 syrup.  Has anyone ever tried that?  Is it the same as just adding table sugar (obviously Candi would like you to buy/use more of their product!), or does the 45 have enough character to add anything meaningful to a Dunkel?

I have never used the D45 before, but I have one on hand.  I will brew up a dunkel around Txgiving week, I may split batch it, fermenting one my normal way, and the other fermenter with the D45 added for a higher gravity Dunkel...

[erockrph]

Incidentally, the recipes at the CandiSyrup website that BrewBama pointed out to me, include a Munich Dunkel that uses their D-45 syrup.  Has anyone ever tried that?  Is it the same as just adding table sugar (obviously Candi would like you to buy/use more of their product!), or does the 45 have enough character to add anything meaningful to a Dunkel?

I have never used the D45 before, but I have one on hand.  I will brew up a dunkel around Txgiving week, I may split batch it, fermenting one my normal way, and the other fermenter with the D45 added for a higher gravity Dunkel...

I use D-45 from time to time when I want to add flavors in a similar ballpark to Cara malts while still keeping the FG low. It doesn't taste exactly the same as a Cara malt or a British style invert sugar. I can't exactly describe it - it's vaguely toffee-like, but paired with the aftertaste of a golden raisin (kinda). It works great in a Belgian Pale Ale, and it can be an interesting twist in other styles.

That said, I can't picture that flavor giving me what I want in a Dunkel. Dunkel is all about bread crusts and toast to me. Any kind of caramel or toffee character would be out of place, at least in what I'm looking for in that style.

[denny]

Incidentally, the recipes at the CandiSyrup website that BrewBama pointed out to me, include a Munich Dunkel that uses their D-45 syrup.  Has anyone ever tried that?  Is it the same as just adding table sugar (obviously Candi would like you to buy/use more of their product!), or does the 45 have enough character to add anything meaningful to a Dunkel?

I have never used the D45 before, but I have one on hand.  I will brew up a dunkel around Txgiving week, I may split batch it, fermenting one my normal way, and the other fermenter with the D45 added for a higher gravity Dunkel...

I use D-45 from time to time when I want to add flavors in a similar ballpark to Cara malts while still keeping the FG low. It doesn't taste exactly the same as a Cara malt or a British style invert sugar. I can't exactly describe it - it's vaguely toffee-like, but paired with the aftertaste of a golden raisin (kinda). It works great in a Belgian Pale Ale, and it can be an interesting twist in other styles.

That said, I can't picture that flavor giving me what I want in a Dunkel. Dunkel is all about bread crusts and toast to me. Any kind of caramel or toffee character would be out of place, at least in what I'm looking for in that style.

I agree. A dunkel should malty, bready, and dry. Not fruity.

[ScallyWag]

Thanks Denny & Eric. 

The D-45 is going to have to sit in the fridge for a [long] while.