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Author Topic: 34/70 and Diacetyl  (Read 2954 times)

Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: 34/70 and Diacetyl
« Reply #30 on: January 02, 2024, 08:14:12 am »
Try some enzyme that reduces diacetyl.

Although commonly added to heavily dry hopped beers, using ALDC during fermentation can benefit any beer style by reducing diacetyl production.

On a Podcast I heard it was expensive. Is it available yet to homebrewers?
It’s available from morebeer.

https://www.morebeer.com/products/cellarscience-aldc-enzyme.html

That confirm that it is spendy.
I found the reviews for that product interesting. I guess they must dry hop in a different league. I have never gotten diacetyl from dry hopping with pellets. Of course, I don’t dry hop that much and not with huge quantities either.

It was Vinnie Cilurzo that mentioned that it was expensive, and he has seen a rise in Diacetyl when dry hopping. You can look up his recipe for Pliny the Elder and calculate the lbs/bbl. IIRC Russian River dry hops at a rate less than the NEIPA brewers that use 5 or 6 lbs/bbl.

It has been a while since I read about this, but not all hops have the enzyme when tested for it. One report showed that one crop of Amarillo had it, the next year's crop didn't.

If someone has a recent reference on this point me to it.
Jeff Rankert
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Offline BrewBama

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34/70 and Diacetyl
« Reply #31 on: January 02, 2024, 08:24:04 am »
I guess the definition of expensive is subjective. There’s a brewer in our club who uses ALDC in every batch because he is blind to Diacetyl. One vial contains enough for 35 5 gal batches. @ $30 per 1 oz vial ≈ 85 cents a batch. Brewing every 3 weeks the 1 oz vial lasts ~2 yrs. Smaller batches require less enzyme so the cost is less per batch.


History doesn't lie. People simply lie about history.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2024, 08:37:58 am by BrewBama »

Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: 34/70 and Diacetyl
« Reply #32 on: January 02, 2024, 11:11:06 am »
I guess the definition of expensive is subjective. There’s a brewer in our club who uses ALDC in every batch because he is blind to Diacetyl. One vial contains enough for 35 5 gal batches. @ $30 per 1 oz vial ≈ 85 cents a batch. Brewing every 3 weeks the 1 oz vial lasts ~2 yrs. Smaller batches require less enzyme so the cost is less per batch.


History doesn't lie. People simply lie about history.

At that dosage rate it's not so bad then. Vinnie thought it was expensive by the Container size he was buying and using.

Do you use it? I don't dry hop all that often. The usual beers I brew will clean up with time.
Jeff Rankert
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Home-brewing, not just a hobby, it is a lifestyle!

Offline BrewBama

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34/70 and Diacetyl
« Reply #33 on: January 02, 2024, 12:18:34 pm »
I have used in twice now based on the guy in our HomeBrew club. I figure it’s cheap insurance.

I taste testing the Amber I used it in and it’s not detectable which is always my concern when adding anything: how’s it going to change the beer.

I have not tasted the Belgian Single I used it in (no dry hop).

I’ll enter both those beers in competition soon so we’ll see how the judges react.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2024, 12:21:59 pm by BrewBama »

Offline ynotbrusum

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Re: 34/70 and Diacetyl
« Reply #34 on: January 02, 2024, 12:37:43 pm »
I understand that Omega has a yeast strain series that has the ALDC enzyme in it, if I heard correctly.  It reduces or removes the diacetyl, I believe.

Here is one link to Omega's British V ale yeast that has this trait:

 https://www.morebeer.com/products/omega-yeast-oyl431-british-dko-beer-diacetyl-knock-series-double-pitch-225-billion-cells.html?gad_source=4&gclid=Cj0KCQiAhc-sBhCEARIsAOVwHuS0zSfyplRqnnv1eLmsVPT8fGoPv6RUNoP493HkF_vDH9WFX5Ms9oAaAlybEALw_wcB

Cheers.
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Offline HighVoltageMan!

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Re: 34/70 and Diacetyl
« Reply #35 on: January 16, 2024, 05:50:20 am »
I've been using ALDC for about a year or more on nearly every beer (mostly lagers) and it works pretty well. It has a shelf life and as it ages the potency is reduced, so be aware of that. I had a beer where I couldn't detect diacetyl, but my wife could. I dosed it with some fresh ALDC and the next day it was gone, so it works post fermentation. I believe it starts to denature @ 4.3pH. No butter in dry hopped beers when I add it with the dry hops.

Offline dmtaylor

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Re: 34/70 and Diacetyl
« Reply #36 on: January 16, 2024, 07:59:37 am »
I've been using ALDC for about a year or more on nearly every beer (mostly lagers) and it works pretty well. It has a shelf life and as it ages the potency is reduced, so be aware of that. I had a beer where I couldn't detect diacetyl, but my wife could. I dosed it with some fresh ALDC and the next day it was gone, so it works post fermentation. I believe it starts to denature @ 4.3pH. No butter in dry hopped beers when I add it with the dry hops.

You know something else that loses potency with age?

DIACETYL

 ;D  ;)  8)

But seriously... I don't know if enough people are considering the benefits of a little aging vs. throwing chemicals at a problem that usually doesn't exist after an extra week or two or three.
Dave

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Offline HighVoltageMan!

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Re: 34/70 and Diacetyl
« Reply #37 on: January 16, 2024, 02:16:24 pm »
I've been using ALDC for about a year or more on nearly every beer (mostly lagers) and it works pretty well. It has a shelf life and as it ages the potency is reduced, so be aware of that. I had a beer where I couldn't detect diacetyl, but my wife could. I dosed it with some fresh ALDC and the next day it was gone, so it works post fermentation. I believe it starts to denature @ 4.3pH. No butter in dry hopped beers when I add it with the dry hops.

You know something else that loses potency with age?

DIACETYL

 ;D  ;)  8)

But seriously... I don't know if enough people are considering the benefits of a little aging vs. throwing chemicals at a problem that usually doesn't exist after an extra week or two or three.

I lose potency with age, I know that. ALDC is an enzyme. All enzymes are proteins, but not all proteins are enzymes. It's a pretty harmless thing to add to your beer.  My problem is I'm blind to diacetyl for the most part. So when some tastes you r beer and says it has a slight butter flavor, my response is...Doh!