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Author Topic: Lend me your eyes on this "not very homebrew" topic...  (Read 943 times)

Offline Village Taphouse

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Lend me your eyes on this "not very homebrew" topic...
« on: August 24, 2023, 01:41:58 pm »
When I travel I like to sample the local beers regardless of where I go.  In the Caribbean, a very solid gold lager is Presidente from the Dominican Republic and I have had it in numerous places.  Alex Rodriguez joined the board of Presidente and suggested that the beer also be brewed in St. Louis so Americans would have a fresh supply of it.  First, it's mildly weird because big bottle shops here in Chicago would carry Presidente that was brewed in the DR so it wasn't a problem.  Second, the beer brewed in St. Louis is not NEARLY as good which is not surprising.  I bought a 12er of it a few years ago and it was really good (brewed in DR) and a month or so later I bought more .. the labels and caps were different and when I tasted the beer it was not as good.  I read the box and saw that it was now made in the US.  You would assume they would use the same recipe, build the same water, same hops, malt, yeast, etc. so how could they get it so wrong?  The original has a distinct flavor and crisp finish.  The one made in the US seems to have less flavor and it's just "dull".  I would think that even Alex Rodriguez would go for the original. 
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Offline tommymorris

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Re: Lend me your eyes on this "not very homebrew" topic...
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2023, 01:50:58 pm »
Big brewers seem to emphasize packaging and marketing to sell beer. Maybe they think taste is less important when most people in the market haven’t had the original.  People will drink it because Alex R recommended it.

Offline Village Taphouse

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Re: Lend me your eyes on this "not very homebrew" topic...
« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2023, 02:18:50 pm »
Big brewers seem to emphasize packaging and marketing to sell beer. Maybe they think taste is less important when most people in the market haven’t had the original.  People will drink it because Alex R recommended it.
That makes sense but it also suggests that they said, "We're going to make it how we want, not so that people can't tell the difference" which is really weird to me.  You're making the same beer but it's so different .. so what's the point.  If you think about the world of "gold beers", there are a ton of options.  When you make something that stands out and is actually really good, that's saying something.  I feel like AB took that good example and watered it down.  BOO!  :D
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Offline jeffy

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Re: Lend me your eyes on this "not very homebrew" topic...
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2023, 03:11:46 pm »
Big brewers seem to emphasize packaging and marketing to sell beer. Maybe they think taste is less important when most people in the market haven’t had the original.  People will drink it because Alex R recommended it.
That makes sense but it also suggests that they said, "We're going to make it how we want, not so that people can't tell the difference" which is really weird to me.  You're making the same beer but it's so different .. so what's the point.  If you think about the world of "gold beers", there are a ton of options.  When you make something that stands out and is actually really good, that's saying something.  I feel like AB took that good example and watered it down.  BOO!  :D
We have a lot of Spanish stores/markets here. I'll have to see where this one is brewed. When I have had it in the past I wasn't very impressed.
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Offline chinaski

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Re: Lend me your eyes on this "not very homebrew" topic...
« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2023, 03:12:32 pm »
Maybe it sells well in both versions?

Offline Frankenbrew

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Re: Lend me your eyes on this "not very homebrew" topic...
« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2023, 03:25:40 pm »
What sells in the U.S. is different than in other cultures, so I guess you could say it's culture. The beer market is no different than the automobile market or any other market. Cars sold here are different than cars sold in Japan or in Sweden. You could probably say the same about almost every product; different things appeal to people of different cultures. In the U.S. we have loved and bought insipid beers, and most of us buy insipid beers, so why would they make them different than what we mostly buy?
« Last Edit: August 24, 2023, 03:27:24 pm by Frankenbrew »
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Offline Village Taphouse

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Re: Lend me your eyes on this "not very homebrew" topic...
« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2023, 04:28:09 pm »
Like anything else, you could get a bad example of this beer for sure.  If it came from DR and sat in a store at room temp I assume the poor handling would age it quickly.  Of course, having a beer like this in the right setting is always good but when I bought it in the US and it was brewed in DR .. it was still very good.  I dunno.  I feel like they ruined something good and it was something we could already get here anyway.  I'm sure it was expensive to ship it to the US and it's probably cheaper now that it's brewed in St. Louis but it's a different product.  I started this because I stopped at my local today and picked up a 12er and plan to have a couple tonight.  Maybe my tastebuds will be pleasantly surprised.  :D  It's also 100° here today in Chicago so a cold, gold beer sounds good.  Cheers Beerheads. 
Ken from Chicago. 
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Offline Village Taphouse

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Re: Lend me your eyes on this "not very homebrew" topic...
« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2023, 05:20:40 pm »
Honestly .. it's pretty good.  It's closer to the original than I remember.  The date on it says to consume by January 2024.  Not really sure how fresh that is.  It's a nice warm-weather beer.

Ken from Chicago. 
A day without beer is like... just kidding, I have no idea.

Offline goose

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Re: Lend me your eyes on this "not very homebrew" topic...
« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2023, 08:13:20 am »
When I travel I like to sample the local beers regardless of where I go.  In the Caribbean, a very solid gold lager is Presidente from the Dominican Republic and I have had it in numerous places.  Alex Rodriguez joined the board of Presidente and suggested that the beer also be brewed in St. Louis so Americans would have a fresh supply of it.  First, it's mildly weird because big bottle shops here in Chicago would carry Presidente that was brewed in the DR so it wasn't a problem.  Second, the beer brewed in St. Louis is not NEARLY as good which is not surprising.  I bought a 12er of it a few years ago and it was really good (brewed in DR) and a month or so later I bought more .. the labels and caps were different and when I tasted the beer it was not as good.  I read the box and saw that it was now made in the US.  You would assume they would use the same recipe, build the same water, same hops, malt, yeast, etc. so how could they get it so wrong?  The original has a distinct flavor and crisp finish.  The one made in the US seems to have less flavor and it's just "dull".  I would think that even Alex Rodriguez would go for the original.

I noticed this with the Amstel beer that was brewed in the Netherlands and the one brewed in Curacao.  The one in Curacao is made from desalinated sea water and has a distinctly different flavor from the one made in Europe (I actually like the one made in Curacao a bit better).  I am wondering if that is the difference you are noticing?
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Offline Village Taphouse

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Re: Lend me your eyes on this "not very homebrew" topic...
« Reply #9 on: August 25, 2023, 08:30:18 am »
I noticed this with the Amstel beer that was brewed in the Netherlands and the one brewed in Curacao.  The one in Curacao is made from desalinated sea water and has a distinctly different flavor from the one made in Europe (I actually like the one made in Curacao a bit better).  I am wondering if that is the difference you are noticing?
Is that the Amstel Bright? 

So maybe the genuine Presidente is made from desalinated water and then minerals are added back and the one from St. Louis is just "built" differently? 
Ken from Chicago. 
A day without beer is like... just kidding, I have no idea.

Offline goose

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Re: Lend me your eyes on this "not very homebrew" topic...
« Reply #10 on: August 25, 2023, 08:39:07 am »
I noticed this with the Amstel beer that was brewed in the Netherlands and the one brewed in Curacao.  The one in Curacao is made from desalinated sea water and has a distinctly different flavor from the one made in Europe (I actually like the one made in Curacao a bit better).  I am wondering if that is the difference you are noticing?
Is that the Amstel Bright? 

So maybe the genuine Presidente is made from desalinated water and then minerals are added back and the one from St. Louis is just "built" differently?

Yes.
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Offline Village Taphouse

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Re: Lend me your eyes on this "not very homebrew" topic...
« Reply #11 on: August 25, 2023, 08:41:41 am »
I noticed this with the Amstel beer that was brewed in the Netherlands and the one brewed in Curacao.  The one in Curacao is made from desalinated sea water and has a distinctly different flavor from the one made in Europe (I actually like the one made in Curacao a bit better).  I am wondering if that is the difference you are noticing?
Is that the Amstel Bright? 

So maybe the genuine Presidente is made from desalinated water and then minerals are added back and the one from St. Louis is just "built" differently?
Yes.
I could see that.  I have been to Aruba many times and went on a tour of the Balashi brewery.  That beer is made from the desalinated water as well and when you get it in a bottle or can it can actually be a little harsh.  But the draft Balashi at the brewery was smooth and delicious.  Interesting for sure. 

« Last Edit: August 25, 2023, 10:40:17 am by dbeechum »
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Offline fredthecat

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Re: Lend me your eyes on this "not very homebrew" topic...
« Reply #12 on: August 25, 2023, 07:41:14 pm »
what everyone has said - my examples of this:

OB (Oriental Breweries) got a license to make hoegaarden, budweiser and some other stuff in Gwangju, South Korea. the hoegaarden was always very good, its been a long time since I Had it there, but I recall it being basically as good as the real deal. the budweiser tasted VERY dry, noticeably different from american budweiser, which I was somewhat familiar with at the time I had it there.

labatt brewery in london, ontario got a license to brew a whole ton of stuff, but notably spaten and lowenbrau. spaten and lowenbrau are not the greatest pale lagers/"helles" made in germany, but what they do at labatt should be criminal. it tastes completely the same as a generic NAIL, something light labatt blue, or even verging on discount NAIL, but it comes in the lowenbrau/spaten cans. they are also 473ml instead of 500ml, a canada size pint (we LOVE getting ripped off in every way possible). it is nearly completely undrinkable swill.


a lot of people have emphasized megabrewers' skill in blending and making huge quantities of beer and keeping them consistent in taste. i never found that to be the case at all, and it was an unknown, since i don't know the storage time/conditions of these beers before I drank them, but I always found huge variation in many mega beers where one day it could be decent, the next completely terrible.






Offline Village Taphouse

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Re: Lend me your eyes on this "not very homebrew" topic...
« Reply #13 on: August 26, 2023, 09:31:37 am »
what everyone has said - my examples of this:

OB (Oriental Breweries) got a license to make hoegaarden, budweiser and some other stuff in Gwangju, South Korea. the hoegaarden was always very good, its been a long time since I Had it there, but I recall it being basically as good as the real deal. the budweiser tasted VERY dry, noticeably different from american budweiser, which I was somewhat familiar with at the time I had it there.

labatt brewery in london, ontario got a license to brew a whole ton of stuff, but notably spaten and lowenbrau. spaten and lowenbrau are not the greatest pale lagers/"helles" made in germany, but what they do at labatt should be criminal. it tastes completely the same as a generic NAIL, something light labatt blue, or even verging on discount NAIL, but it comes in the lowenbrau/spaten cans. they are also 473ml instead of 500ml, a canada size pint (we LOVE getting ripped off in every way possible). it is nearly completely undrinkable swill.


a lot of people have emphasized megabrewers' skill in blending and making huge quantities of beer and keeping them consistent in taste. i never found that to be the case at all, and it was an unknown, since i don't know the storage time/conditions of these beers before I drank them, but I always found huge variation in many mega beers where one day it could be decent, the next completely terrible.
On the topic of a beer changing .. I agree with you.  My dad used to love Labatt Blue.  It used to come in a brown bottle and when I went up to Ontario with him when I was .. maybe 19 .. we drank the hell out of it.  Later my dad would find it in the US in shorter green bottles .. different label and according to him not nearly as good.  When I hear that I assume they changed the recipe to make the beer less expensive to make and increase their margin.  Not surprising.  But the part where we are brewers and we understand how beer is made and all the variables, I do wonder about the concept of making the exact same beer that is made [over here] and duplicating the entire process .. same grist, same hops or hop extract or whatever, same yeast, same water composition, same mash technique, same fermentation schedule and all of the other pieces of the process.  On one hand I feel like you should be able to get into the zip code.  OTOH, knowing and understanding all the variables, it's reasonable to conclude that you're only going to get close. 
« Last Edit: August 26, 2023, 09:33:38 am by Village Taphouse »
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Offline neuse

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Re: Lend me your eyes on this "not very homebrew" topic...
« Reply #14 on: August 26, 2023, 12:58:44 pm »
what everyone has said - my examples of this:

OB (Oriental Breweries) got a license to make hoegaarden, budweiser and some other stuff in Gwangju, South Korea. the hoegaarden was always very good, its been a long time since I Had it there, but I recall it being basically as good as the real deal. the budweiser tasted VERY dry, noticeably different from american budweiser, which I was somewhat familiar with at the time I had it there.

labatt brewery in london, ontario got a license to brew a whole ton of stuff, but notably spaten and lowenbrau. spaten and lowenbrau are not the greatest pale lagers/"helles" made in germany, but what they do at labatt should be criminal. it tastes completely the same as a generic NAIL, something light labatt blue, or even verging on discount NAIL, but it comes in the lowenbrau/spaten cans. they are also 473ml instead of 500ml, a canada size pint (we LOVE getting ripped off in every way possible). it is nearly completely undrinkable swill.


a lot of people have emphasized megabrewers' skill in blending and making huge quantities of beer and keeping them consistent in taste. i never found that to be the case at all, and it was an unknown, since i don't know the storage time/conditions of these beers before I drank them, but I always found huge variation in many mega beers where one day it could be decent, the next completely terrible.
On the topic of a beer changing .. I agree with you.  My dad used to love Labatt Blue.  It used to come in a brown bottle and when I went up to Ontario with him when I was .. maybe 19 .. we drank the hell out of it.  Later my dad would find it in the US in shorter green bottles .. different label and according to him not nearly as good.  When I hear that I assume they changed the recipe to make the beer less expensive to make and increase their margin.  Not surprising.  But the part where we are brewers and we understand how beer is made and all the variables, I do wonder about the concept of making the exact same beer that is made [over here] and duplicating the entire process .. same grist, same hops or hop extract or whatever, same yeast, same water composition, same mash technique, same fermentation schedule and all of the other pieces of the process.  On one hand I feel like you should be able to get into the zip code.  OTOH, knowing and understanding all the variables, it's reasonable to conclude that you're only going to get close. 
This, big time