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Author Topic: What's up with Hop Heaven?  (Read 1201 times)

Offline Village Taphouse

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What's up with Hop Heaven?
« on: September 04, 2023, 05:51:37 pm »
Apologies if this has been discussed.  With 25 separate subforums here plus 4 child boards I never know where to find things.  I went to HH's eBay page and it says the page is not active.  I found another link to "Lupulin Exchange" (or something) and didn't see a way to order.  The HH website also shows that it's under construction.  Ted's email address is listed there but I didn't want to email him without doing some homework.  Anyone know what's up?  I need to order some Edelweiss. 
Ken from Chicago. 
A day without beer is like... just kidding, I have no idea.

Offline tommymorris

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Re: What's up with Hop Heaven?
« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2023, 06:04:49 pm »
Apologies if this has been discussed.  With 25 separate subforums here plus 4 child boards I never know where to find things.  I went to HH's eBay page and it says the page is not active.  I found another link to "Lupulin Exchange" (or something) and didn't see a way to order.  The HH website also shows that it's under construction.  Ted's email address is listed there but I didn't want to email him without doing some homework.  Anyone know what's up?  I need to order some Edelweiss.
I think email is the only way to buy for homebrew sizes.

Offline Village Taphouse

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Re: What's up with Hop Heaven?
« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2023, 06:13:03 pm »
Apologies if this has been discussed.  With 25 separate subforums here plus 4 child boards I never know where to find things.  I went to HH's eBay page and it says the page is not active.  I found another link to "Lupulin Exchange" (or something) and didn't see a way to order.  The HH website also shows that it's under construction.  Ted's email address is listed there but I didn't want to email him without doing some homework.  Anyone know what's up?  I need to order some Edelweiss.
I think email is the only way to buy for homebrew sizes.
Okay, thanks brother.  Email sent. 
Ken from Chicago. 
A day without beer is like... just kidding, I have no idea.

Offline BrewBama

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Re: What's up with Hop Heaven?
« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2023, 05:09:21 am »
Making the buying experience a PITA can kill a small business.

Offline Village Taphouse

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Re: What's up with Hop Heaven?
« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2023, 07:48:38 am »
He emailed me back immediately (on Labor Day) and sent me an electronic invoice which I paid.  Then he asked for my address which I gave him and I already have an email this morning saying he sent the package Priority Mail.  So it works.  Yes, it's mildly unorthodox but I think he's in the process of getting a full-blown website/storefront set up HERE.  The eBay storefront was fine but maybe he decided to not rely on eBay and get his own gig going.  On a related note, I don't use HH for much.  I may have picked up some US Saaz from him based on a suggestion from another brewer here but other than Edelweiss I typically use YVH.  All of this started because I was enjoying a helles yesterday and went back to my notes to see that the hops were Edelweiss and I knew my supply was running low. 
« Last Edit: September 05, 2023, 07:50:55 am by Village Taphouse »
Ken from Chicago. 
A day without beer is like... just kidding, I have no idea.

Offline jeffy

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Re: What's up with Hop Heaven?
« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2023, 09:01:37 am »
He emailed me back immediately (on Labor Day) and sent me an electronic invoice which I paid.  Then he asked for my address which I gave him and I already have an email this morning saying he sent the package Priority Mail.  So it works.  Yes, it's mildly unorthodox but I think he's in the process of getting a full-blown website/storefront set up HERE.  The eBay storefront was fine but maybe he decided to not rely on eBay and get his own gig going.  On a related note, I don't use HH for much.  I may have picked up some US Saaz from him based on a suggestion from another brewer here but other than Edelweiss I typically use YVH.  All of this started because I was enjoying a helles yesterday and went back to my notes to see that the hops were Edelweiss and I knew my supply was running low.
I've had similar experience with Ted. It's difficult to navigate the website he is currently using, but he answers emails right away. Plus he usually send extra hops just to be nice.
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Offline BrewBama

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Re: What's up with Hop Heaven?
« Reply #6 on: September 05, 2023, 09:02:03 am »
Good to hear he’s responding quickly. I just used the last of my Edelweiss so I need a refill.

Offline Village Taphouse

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Re: What's up with Hop Heaven?
« Reply #7 on: September 05, 2023, 09:38:27 am »
Not to derail the thread but has anyone gotten any more information about how Ted puts his "Edelweiss" together?  IIRC, he blends equal parts of four or five hops (I want to say that I read it can be things like Liberty, Sterling, Mt. Hood, etc) and that he crunches the numbers to arrive at an AA% and that the blend can differ from year to year based on what he has and what he considers to be the best hops at the time he does it.  I'm very curious if there is more/better information out there.  Whatever it is .. it's really nice.  I have used it in many styles and often go back to my notes (wondering what made the beer so delicious) and then see that I used Edelweiss. 
Ken from Chicago. 
A day without beer is like... just kidding, I have no idea.

Online HopDen

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Re: What's up with Hop Heaven?
« Reply #8 on: September 05, 2023, 10:38:04 am »
Not to derail the thread but has anyone gotten any more information about how Ted puts his "Edelweiss" together?  IIRC, he blends equal parts of four or five hops (I want to say that I read it can be things like Liberty, Sterling, Mt. Hood, etc) and that he crunches the numbers to arrive at an AA% and that the blend can differ from year to year based on what he has and what he considers to be the best hops at the time he does it.  I'm very curious if there is more/better information out there.  Whatever it is .. it's really nice.  I have used it in many styles and often go back to my notes (wondering what made the beer so delicious) and then see that I used Edelweiss.
I have no clue how he arrives to the end product but let me say I hope he never stops! Edelweiss is my favorite hop to use for my Czech Style Lager among other style.


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Offline Village Taphouse

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Re: What's up with Hop Heaven?
« Reply #9 on: September 05, 2023, 10:40:49 am »
Well, would you look at that.  I did a search and found that I started a thread about C148 (another HH blend, apparently) and Ted himself replied to the thread and mentioned Edelweiss too.  I think that the thread went on awhile and I never saw his post until today.  He wrote on January 4, 2021...


Sorry to be late to the conversation, I wanted to give clarity on both C148 and Edelweiss

C148 as mentioned is from farms around Oregon Hop House.  Since Yakima Chief and Hop Union merged it created a monopoly for the farmers to sell hops to and are concerned for long term.  They are banding together to break out of the YCH strangle hold and have a breeding program, pushing hard for low to no chemicals on the hops due by selective breeding.  They have reduced the amount of chemicals required.  Citra, Mosaic and other proprietary hops are putting pressure on the farmers to find alternatives and they are breeding them for just that.  These and others breed by the group group that controls Citra, Mosaic, Sabro etc account for most IPA brewed in America.  As a brewer, this means we are loosing acreage for almost all hop varieties as they are pulled for their hops. Many are down to a few token acres.  As noted in the posts, C148 is citrus, restrained resinous and dankness, moderate tropical fruit, peach and white grapes.  Make a fun IPA, I have not experimented with it beyond that.  I pelletized the first batch for these farmers.  It was picked up this year by Hop Steiner and limited released.  It is renamed, not sure yet of the new name

Edelweiss, it is my personnel blend of hops.  As a lager brewer, we get crapped on.  We have no political pull compared to IPA brewers, so I offered my blend to home and pro brewers.  It has 6 different lager hops in it.  This gives the brewer the advantage of complexity and depth of character with out sourcing and opening 6 different bags of hops.  From the pro side a 7 barrel batch would take 14-21 pounds of hop, most order hops in 11 lb bags and the extra hops would end up in the trash from lack of proper storage and too long of time between lager batches.  From a cost stand point it is prohibitive to brew with this many hops in traditional lagers.

My hop blend includes 6 lager hops both US and european grown.  Some are imported from Europe such as the Hallertauer Mittelfruh and Saaz.  Some are grown in the US.  They are all current crop year and noted on the label.  As Village Taphouse noted, freshness from Europe is an issue, but their abuse of the hops give us the fun spicy notes such as black pepper.  This is an age issue that is desired by many.  The US portion will be fresher, more vibrant giving the blend bright clean floral notes.  I have gotten Lilac, similar to Tremmer Pils,  from the blend.  The 2019 had a light but noticeable level of black pepper at 2 months that faded at the 3rd month.  I have had some brewers use it like an pale ale hop and with heavy use lemon comes out.  It can make a fun "lemon shandy" type beer with out the shandy.  I like my Pilsners at the 3rd month and usually try to keep a few kegs around so they age to that point.  I have used it in Munich Dunkel, Dark International lagers, Bo Pilsner, German Pilsners, marzens, bocks to name a few.  It works well in all of them and is not limited to this small group of lagers.  2 years ago an brewer got gold at GABF in a wheat beer.  Best description is easy drinking

The boat from Europe is on the way and will be here mid month.  We will have the Edelweiss ready about 2/1


Ken from Chicago. 
A day without beer is like... just kidding, I have no idea.

Online HopDen

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Re: What's up with Hop Heaven?
« Reply #10 on: September 05, 2023, 03:17:11 pm »
Well, would you look at that.  I did a search and found that I started a thread about C148 (another HH blend, apparently) and Ted himself replied to the thread and mentioned Edelweiss too.  I think that the thread went on awhile and I never saw his post until today.  He wrote on January 4, 2021...


Sorry to be late to the conversation, I wanted to give clarity on both C148 and Edelweiss

C148 as mentioned is from farms around Oregon Hop House.  Since Yakima Chief and Hop Union merged it created a monopoly for the farmers to sell hops to and are concerned for long term.  They are banding together to break out of the YCH strangle hold and have a breeding program, pushing hard for low to no chemicals on the hops due by selective breeding.  They have reduced the amount of chemicals required.  Citra, Mosaic and other proprietary hops are putting pressure on the farmers to find alternatives and they are breeding them for just that.  These and others breed by the group group that controls Citra, Mosaic, Sabro etc account for most IPA brewed in America.  As a brewer, this means we are loosing acreage for almost all hop varieties as they are pulled for their hops. Many are down to a few token acres.  As noted in the posts, C148 is citrus, restrained resinous and dankness, moderate tropical fruit, peach and white grapes.  Make a fun IPA, I have not experimented with it beyond that.  I pelletized the first batch for these farmers.  It was picked up this year by Hop Steiner and limited released.  It is renamed, not sure yet of the new name

Edelweiss, it is my personnel blend of hops.  As a lager brewer, we get crapped on.  We have no political pull compared to IPA brewers, so I offered my blend to home and pro brewers.  It has 6 different lager hops in it.  This gives the brewer the advantage of complexity and depth of character with out sourcing and opening 6 different bags of hops.  From the pro side a 7 barrel batch would take 14-21 pounds of hop, most order hops in 11 lb bags and the extra hops would end up in the trash from lack of proper storage and too long of time between lager batches.  From a cost stand point it is prohibitive to brew with this many hops in traditional lagers.

My hop blend includes 6 lager hops both US and european grown.  Some are imported from Europe such as the Hallertauer Mittelfruh and Saaz.  Some are grown in the US.  They are all current crop year and noted on the label.  As Village Taphouse noted, freshness from Europe is an issue, but their abuse of the hops give us the fun spicy notes such as black pepper.  This is an age issue that is desired by many.  The US portion will be fresher, more vibrant giving the blend bright clean floral notes.  I have gotten Lilac, similar to Tremmer Pils,  from the blend.  The 2019 had a light but noticeable level of black pepper at 2 months that faded at the 3rd month.  I have had some brewers use it like an pale ale hop and with heavy use lemon comes out.  It can make a fun "lemon shandy" type beer with out the shandy.  I like my Pilsners at the 3rd month and usually try to keep a few kegs around so they age to that point.  I have used it in Munich Dunkel, Dark International lagers, Bo Pilsner, German Pilsners, marzens, bocks to name a few.  It works well in all of them and is not limited to this small group of lagers.  2 years ago an brewer got gold at GABF in a wheat beer.  Best description is easy drinking

The boat from Europe is on the way and will be here mid month.  We will have the Edelweiss ready about 2/1


Good post Ken!
A few good points from Ted in here too! Although Ted doesn't give exact specifics on the Edelweiss blend, it tells me I can single use this hop as I have in the past with great results. With that said I have pared edelweiss with saaz, kazbek, magnum and others. I like edelweiss on its own and I will definitely up the load to see if I can get those different flavors. One more thing that I can attest to is that the hop on its own surely makes for easy drinking lagers.

Offline Village Taphouse

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Re: What's up with Hop Heaven?
« Reply #11 on: September 06, 2023, 08:04:39 am »
I particularly like the part where Ted says that using Edelweiss can bring some complexity to a beer because it's not ONE hop, it's SIX hops but they're all in the same bag.  I hadn't thought of it that way.  I just drew up a very simple recipe with 80% Avangard Pils, 20% Bonlander Munich and then Edelweiss to bitter and another ounce for one minute and Novalager.  It should be a nice stage for Edelweiss to play. 
Ken from Chicago. 
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Re: What's up with Hop Heaven?
« Reply #12 on: September 06, 2023, 08:31:29 am »
I particularly like the part where Ted says that using Edelweiss can bring some complexity to a beer because it's not ONE hop, it's SIX hops but they're all in the same bag.  I hadn't thought of it that way.  I just drew up a very simple recipe with 80% Avangard Pils, 20% Bonlander Munich and then Edelweiss to bitter and another ounce for one minute and Novalager.  It should be a nice stage for Edelweiss to play.

That's exactly the reason YCH does so many blends.
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Offline Village Taphouse

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Re: What's up with Hop Heaven?
« Reply #13 on: September 06, 2023, 08:39:34 am »
I particularly like the part where Ted says that using Edelweiss can bring some complexity to a beer because it's not ONE hop, it's SIX hops but they're all in the same bag.  I hadn't thought of it that way.  I just drew up a very simple recipe with 80% Avangard Pils, 20% Bonlander Munich and then Edelweiss to bitter and another ounce for one minute and Novalager.  It should be a nice stage for Edelweiss to play.

That's exactly the reason YCH does so many blends.
It's smart because you're bypassing the long breeding process (as Ted mentioned) but also .. we have so many freaking hop varieties now that you should be able to blend 2, 3, 4 or more hops together and find your perfect combination.  Of course, we can do that ourselves by mixing hops but it's cool to see the hop suppliers doing it too.  I bet I have all or most of the hops that Ted uses in Edelweiss .. Hallertau, Saaz, Sterling, Liberty, Mt. Hood, maybe Santiam, Vanguard, Crystal or Loral.  I have every one of those hops in my freezer.  Still .. looking forward to new batches with Edelweiss.  Cheers Beerheads. 
Ken from Chicago. 
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Offline Cliffs

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Re: What's up with Hop Heaven?
« Reply #14 on: September 07, 2023, 09:43:25 am »
The edelweiss blend has replaced so many different hops in my brewing. I just love the flavor so much, any time I havent used it, I end up wishing I had. Saisons, lagers, blondes, scottish styles. Basically anything that isnt an IPA gets edelweiss, even as a bittering hop it has a lovely, clean and soft character. I also like some of the american nobles (liberty especially), but in the end I just like Edelweiss more.