[nvshooter2276]

Was in my LHBS yesterday and the convo got around to how long I've had a bottle or two of unhopped LME in my icebox, which is always at right around forty-one degrees. I've had seven pounds of unhopped Amber since January 2021 and seven-plus pounds of Pale Ale since October 18, 2022 (one year as of today). It was suggested by the person who owns the shop that maybe I should discard fourteen pounds of LME that's been under refrigeration since the day I brought home the containers. I am loathe to do so because I believe the constant state of refrigeration has preserved the sugars from evaporating, as well as the containers having their caps/tops secured from the moment I bought each type. I'm not going to commit seppuku if my finished product is a little darker than we usually see in a Pale Ale, if darkening of the extract is what happens over a long-term storage in a common kitchen refrigerator.

Referring back to the Pale Ale LME, I added about 1.6 pounds of Amber to the 7.1-some pounds of Pale Ale that's been in my icebox for a year as of today. I have 8.9 pounds of unhopped LME which will be wedded with 7.0 gallons of water to give me a dilution of 1.27 pounds of extract per gallon. My benchmark is 1.25 pounds per gallon in beers that I make from scratch, so we're right there on that facet.

I'm hoping with Winter coming I can have a few more days away from work such that I can spend a day boiling-up a batch and getting the yeast into it. We shall see...

[fredthecat]

imho you can definitely use that LME.

could it have issues related to oxidation or age? probably?

will it make beer? yes.

either just use it as a practice beer and make some stuff to drink and/or consider ways to cover up unwanted flavours -ie. roasted malts to make a porter or stout. go for an attenuative yeast as well imho

DME is pretty well known to age really, really well and take up less physical space than LME, though it sometimes can have issues of its own.

RDWHAHB

[neuse]

imho you can definitely use that LME.

could it have issues related to oxidation or age? probably?

will it make beer? yes.

either just use it as a practice beer and make some stuff to drink and/or consider ways to cover up unwanted flavours -ie. roasted malts to make a porter or stout. go for an attenuative yeast as well imho

DME is pretty well known to age really, really well and take up less physical space than LME, though it sometimes can have issues of its own.

RDWHAHB

I think that covers it.

[BrewnWKopperKat]

LME that's been under refrigeration since the day I brought home the containers.

In Home Brew Recipe Bible (p 10), Chris Colby offers a technique for measuring the freshness of extract: create a small OG 48-ish wort and look at the color.

I've used this technique couple of times: For pilsen / extra light, pale to gold is fine; amber is stale.

Pale Ale (not golden light) and Amber start darker in color.  With Pale Ale, gold to light amber is probably OK.  With Amber, anything up to amber brown (SRM 18-ish?) is probably OK.  If you are using Briess products, they provide approximate color at various OGs in their product information. 

I'm not going to commit seppuku if my finished product is a little darker than we usually see in a Pale Ale, if darkening of the extract is what happens over a long-term storage in a common kitchen refrigerator.

The book also suggests tasting the sample wort. 

From my limited experiences with stale LME, sharp "ball point pen"-like flavors won't disappear with time. 

[nvshooter2276]

From my limited experiences with stale LME, sharp "ball point pen"-like flavors won't disappear with time.

I've used Pilot G2 rollerball pens (black only) for years and years because they don't skip as frequently as does a ballpoint pen, so I'm unfamiliar with the flavor of the ink in a ballpoint pen. I bottle in one-liter bottles, so after 22-some bottles of "inky" beer, I'd probably have developed a taste for it. I'm going to use the old stuff, anyway. It's been refrigerated since January 2021, with packaging tape securing the screw-on top to keep it secured. If it makes a bad batch, I will at least get to see how thick will be the layer of dead yeast created with fermenting so many pounds of LME.

[neuse]

It was suggested by the person who owns the shop that maybe I should discard fourteen pounds of LME that's been under refrigeration since the day I brought home the containers. I am loathe to do so because I believe the constant state of refrigeration has preserved the sugars from evaporating, as well as the containers having their caps/tops secured from the moment I bought each type.

Was this LME bought in factory sealed containers, or from a bulk tank at a LHBS? I ask because I assume factory sealed should store better than LME from a bulk tank.

[hopfenundmalz]

It was suggested by the person who owns the shop that maybe I should discard fourteen pounds of LME that's been under refrigeration since the day I brought home the containers. I am loathe to do so because I believe the constant state of refrigeration has preserved the sugars from evaporating, as well as the containers having their caps/tops secured from the moment I bought each type.

Was this LME bought in factory sealed containers, or from a bulk tank at a LHBS? I ask because I assume factory sealed should store better than LME from a bulk tank.

LME in a sealed can has a 2 year shelf life. I would want it as fresh as possible.

[BrewnWKopperKat]

From my limited experiences with stale LME, sharp "ball point pen"-like flavors won't disappear with time.

[...] the flavor of the ink in a ballpoint pen. [...]

A metallic-like taste would be another descriptor. 

I'm going to use the old stuff, anyway. It's been refrigerated since January 2021, with packaging tape securing the screw-on top to keep it secured. If it makes a bad batch, I will at least get to see how thick will be the layer of dead yeast created with fermenting so many pounds of LME.

Certainly give it a try.  If you can run the "color test" as a side experiment, that would be a bonus. 

[nvshooter2276]

LME in a sealed can has a 2-year shelf life. I would want it as fresh as possible.

The LME from the LHBS was from a bulk barrel. My oldest is Amber; that is from January 2021. A second Hawaiian Punch bottle is Pale Ale from October 2022. I also have several cans of mr. beer kit syrups from July 2022 up to just a few weeks ago. The Amber and Pale Ale are in my icebox; the mr. beer syrups are at room temperature.

I scraped a little LME from the inside of a container, mixed it with some filtered water and placed it in my fridge several weeks ago. I looked at it today and I saw that several spots of greenish-blackish mold had formed along the upper surface of the liquid. I was going to pour that stuff into my near-gallon bottle of Amber LME, but decided against it. I had some remaining from when I poured the stuff from a very-nearly full, cylindrical container into a Hawaiian Punch bottle. That remainder I put into a one-liter bottle with a cup or two of water and then into the freezer with it. I'm interested to see if the sugar in the LME will fall out and I'll have sugar crystals along with a sticky malt mess when I go to warm it for Brew Day. The idea is to use as much of the malt as I can because I have to pay for it, y'know. No reason to throw it away if it can be saved, once diluted with water. If nothing else, I may learn something about LME that I do not now know.

[BrewnWKopperKat]

It was suggested by the person who owns the shop that maybe I should discard fourteen pounds of LME that's been under refrigeration since the day I brought home the containers. I am loathe to do so because I believe the constant state of refrigeration has preserved the sugars from evaporating, as well as the containers having their caps/tops secured from the moment I bought each type.

Was this LME bought in factory sealed containers, or from a bulk tank at a LHBS? I ask because I assume factory sealed should store better than LME from a bulk tank.

LME in a sealed can has a 2 year shelf life. I would want it as fresh as possible.

(metal) cans, plastic containers, plastic jugs, and oxygen barrier pouches likely have a different shelf life - especially if the LME has been repackaged into smaller containers, has "head space", or has been been shipped excessively warm. 

A couple of the bigger online stores have are using oxygen barrier bags and recommend 1) storing the LME cool when it arrives, and 2) using it promptly.  I've had good results (three batches of style specific LME from one order last spring) with one of the those stores.

[fredthecat]

LME in a sealed can has a 2-year shelf life. I would want it as fresh as possible.

The LME from the LHBS was from a bulk barrel. My oldest is Amber; that is from January 2021. A second Hawaiian Punch bottle is Pale Ale from October 2022. I also have several cans of mr. beer kit syrups from July 2022 up to just a few weeks ago. The Amber and Pale Ale are in my icebox; the mr. beer syrups are at room temperature.

I scraped a little LME from the inside of a container, mixed it with some filtered water and placed it in my fridge several weeks ago. I looked at it today and I saw that several spots of greenish-blackish mold had formed along the upper surface of the liquid. I was going to pour that stuff into my near-gallon bottle of Amber LME, but decided against it. I had some remaining from when I poured the stuff from a very-nearly full, cylindrical container into a Hawaiian Punch bottle. That remainder I put into a one-liter bottle with a cup or two of water and then into the freezer with it. I'm interested to see if the sugar in the LME will fall out and I'll have sugar crystals along with a sticky malt mess when I go to warm it for Brew Day. The idea is to use as much of the malt as I can because I have to pay for it, y'know. No reason to throw it away if it can be saved, once diluted with water. If nothing else, I may learn something about LME that I do not now know.

i promise you, no one here is trying to talk down to you by giving advice that runs counter to some ideas you may have had or have. but, ive seen a bunch of your posts on how you want to brew.

afai can tell you have some experience with brewing, but are still starting out.

i feel like ive learned best by doing the hypothesize, test, record methods and results, then think about what i would change in the next brew. obviously some beer gets brewed along the way, but going for a single well, experiment and focusing on it and trying to assess what worked and what didnt and maybe why, then improving it is a common sense way to work towards becoming a good brewer.

LME can definitely work, but plan for a single brew and eliminate the hard-to-qualify variables of uncertain LME quality and age. Just buy some fresh extract and see how that works. my first beers were sort of extract/concentrate-wort kits you added water to. i thought they turned out really well at the time tbh and it definitely motivated me to see how i could improve. the next step after that was adding steeping grains to the kit.