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Author Topic: Cellar Science SAISON: Origin and Suggested Ferm Schedule?  (Read 987 times)

Offline John M

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Cellar Science SAISON: Origin and Suggested Ferm Schedule?
« on: February 18, 2024, 09:56:22 am »
Does anyone know the origin of Cellar Science Saison strain? Also, interested in suggestions for ferm temps. I looked at one of my older Saison recipes, and I used Belle Saison. I pitched at 70, and let it rise 1 degree each day, until active ferm subsided. I remember that being a really good beer.
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Offline John M

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Re: Cellar Science SAISON: Origin and Suggested Ferm Schedule?
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2024, 08:53:59 am »
Regardless of Saison strain, I'd love to hear what temp/s you guys ferment your Saisons at. I'm assuming this is a Belgian strain, vs. French.
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Offline goose

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Re: Cellar Science SAISON: Origin and Suggested Ferm Schedule?
« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2024, 09:15:11 am »
I start my Saison fermentation at 75 degrees and let it free rise to almost 90 degrees F. with Wyeast 3711 French Saison Yeast.  One of my close friends who is a BJCP Grand Master judge once told me it can never get too hot for a Saison.  The beer always comes out very tasty and I get the level of phenolics I am looking for in the beer.

I originally made thee beer with Wyeast 565 Belle Saison yeast but got frustrated when it stalls during fermentation.  It takes off again after a bit of time but I always worried about it stalling mid-fermentation.
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Offline John M

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Re: Cellar Science SAISON: Origin and Suggested Ferm Schedule?
« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2024, 10:11:31 am »
I start my Saison fermentation at 75 degrees and let it free rise to almost 90 degrees F. with Wyeast 3711 French Saison Yeast.  One of my close friends who is a BJCP Grand Master judge once told me it can never get too hot for a Saison.  The beer always comes out very tasty and I get the level of phenolics I am looking for in the beer.

I originally made thee beer with Wyeast 565 Belle Saison yeast but got frustrated when it stalls during fermentation.  It takes off again after a bit of time but I always worried about it stalling mid-fermentation.
Thank you!
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Offline denny

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Re: Cellar Science SAISON: Origin and Suggested Ferm Schedule?
« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2024, 10:13:47 am »
Regardless of Saison strain, I'd love to hear what temp/s you guys ferment your Saisons at. I'm assuming this is a Belgian strain, vs. French.

Drew has spoken about this at length.  He generally pitches in the mid 60s and lets it rise
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Offline dannyjed

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Re: Cellar Science SAISON: Origin and Suggested Ferm Schedule?
« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2024, 11:07:51 am »
Regardless of Saison strain, I'd love to hear what temp/s you guys ferment your Saisons at. I'm assuming this is a Belgian strain, vs. French.

Drew has spoken about this at length.  He generally pitches in the mid 60s and lets it rise
I think he also states that the Belgian Saison yeast is pressure sensitive and it can be a good practice to open ferment.


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Offline denny

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Re: Cellar Science SAISON: Origin and Suggested Ferm Schedule?
« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2024, 12:01:48 pm »
Regardless of Saison strain, I'd love to hear what temp/s you guys ferment your Saisons at. I'm assuming this is a Belgian strain, vs. French.

Drew has spoken about this at length.  He generally pitches in the mid 60s and lets it rise
I think he also states that the Belgian Saison yeast is pressure sensitive and it can be a good practice to open ferment.


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Not all apparently, but 3726 definitely is
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Offline John M

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Re: Cellar Science SAISON: Origin and Suggested Ferm Schedule?
« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2024, 02:34:03 pm »
Regardless of Saison strain, I'd love to hear what temp/s you guys ferment your Saisons at. I'm assuming this is a Belgian strain, vs. French.

Drew has spoken about this at length.  He generally pitches in the mid 60s and lets it rise
I think he also states that the Belgian Saison yeast is pressure sensitive and it can be a good practice to open ferment.


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Not all apparently, but 3726 definitely is
Interesting. Thanks for sharing!
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Offline Northern_Brewer

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Re: Cellar Science SAISON: Origin and Suggested Ferm Schedule?
« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2024, 05:31:58 am »
Does anyone know the origin of Cellar Science Saison strain?

Morebeer say that they mostly but not exclusively repack AEB dry yeasts. Since AEB don't appear to have a saison strain (their only "Belgian" is Bel-Abbey which is claimed to come from Rochefort implying it's a BE-256 equivalent), Morebeer will have had to look elsewhere, so the obvious choice would be Belle Saison.

I wouldn't sweat it too much - Yvan De Baets of de la Senne reckons there's only 2.5 saison strains, they all have their roots in two strains in a Belgian yeastbank.

If you want more on the history of saison then start with this article from Roel Mulder :
https://lostbeers.com/fact-check-yvan-de-baets-on-saison-and-the-results-may-shock-you/
and then check out some of his other material on the subject : https://lostbeers.com/tag/saison/

And if you want to consider other homebrew strains, this is the classic comparison from Drew Beechum :
https://www.maltosefalcons.com/blogs/brewing-techniques-tips/a-guide-to-saisons-and-saison-yeasts

His manifesto for saisons :
A Saison Must Be:

Dry – Thou shall not make a Saison that is not dry. These beers require an amazing level of attenuation. Any sweet characters should be perceptual - e.g. a sugar top note, an herbal sweetness.
Earthy – A dry beer with nothing interesting is just a boring moisture suck. The best Saisons have a middle character of malt and earthy tones that set up the finish.
Spicy – You need tones on the palette that grab and wake you up. A cinnamon thing, a pepper bite, herbal, hot. This spice breaks the earthy middle and leads right to the CO2 sting of the finish
Lively – Nothing worse than a “dead” Saison. The beer needs to be alive in the glass with plenty of carbonation. A touch of sourness can boost the heart rate as well.
Tangy? – Maybe, but it’s not actually a requirement. (nor is brett)
Yeast Driven – More than any other style, Saison is defined by its yeast.  Treated properly, the strains produce every one of the necessary characters for our beer. Damn the man and his ways.




Offline dmtaylor

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Re: Cellar Science SAISON: Origin and Suggested Ferm Schedule?
« Reply #9 on: April 19, 2024, 05:38:50 am »
MoreBeer says the Cellar Science Saison is the same as Wyeast 3711, which is indeed Belle.  That would have been my guess anyway even before looking it up.

https://www.morebeer.com/products/cellarscience-dry-yeast-saison-placeholder.html

As for fermentation temperatures, the ones my friends and I have brewed that have won awards start out in the upper 60s F and allowed to free rise after the first couple days into low 70s.  At no point would I recommend fermenting in the 80s or higher.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2024, 05:41:22 am by dmtaylor »
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Offline reverseapachemaster

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Re: Cellar Science SAISON: Origin and Suggested Ferm Schedule?
« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2024, 11:29:30 am »
If it's a 3711 analog, I would ferment the same as goose. Depending on your fermentation setup, you may need to add heat to keep it around 90F. That's going to get you lemon and pepper flavors. I'm not a huge fan of 3711 in the 60s-70s which I find gives muddled phenolic and citrus character. Most commercial beers you've had with 3711 are usually fermented in this range, so if you like the way those taste, you may want to stay in that temperature range.

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Offline dct333

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Re: Cellar Science SAISON: Origin and Suggested Ferm Schedule?
« Reply #11 on: July 07, 2024, 11:07:53 am »
For the guys who let their saison rise naturally to 90° do you crash immediately after fermentation completes? Let it sit at 90° a few more days? Bring it back to “normal” fermentation temps for a while? I assume let it rise that fast fermentation would be done in two days +/- aren’t there other things happening for a while even if sugars have been consumed?

Offline BrewBama

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Re: Cellar Science SAISON: Origin and Suggested Ferm Schedule?
« Reply #12 on: July 07, 2024, 12:48:48 pm »
Besides Bel Abbey, AEB also has FERMOALE D'La Grange.

“FERMOALE D’La Grange is a versatile dry active top fermenting yeast strain especially selected for fermentation of French & Belgian Saison styles, and Biere de Garde style as well. This high attenuating strain confers a soft fruity, citrusy and phenolic spicy flavour notes, with a refreshing, high drinkable and crispy character, yet with a rich mouthfeel.”

I am not saying that is what a MoreBeer uses, just that there are two AEB Belgian strains.


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Offline Cliffs

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Re: Cellar Science SAISON: Origin and Suggested Ferm Schedule?
« Reply #13 on: July 09, 2024, 10:03:59 am »
Regardless of Saison strain, I'd love to hear what temp/s you guys ferment your Saisons at. I'm assuming this is a Belgian strain, vs. French.

Drew has spoken about this at length.  He generally pitches in the mid 60s and lets it rise
I think he also states that the Belgian Saison yeast is pressure sensitive and it can be a good practice to open ferment.


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Unless new information has come to light, this is a frustrating myth that needs to be dispelled. Saison yeast doesnt care about pressure, if it did we wouldnt be able to bottle condition with it. many diastatic yeasts only produce the enzymes necessary for high attenuation in the presence of oxygen and the absence of simple sugars. Naturally a  pressurized fermentation will create the environment that will prevent oxygen ingress and seemingly cause a stuck or slow fermentation after the simple sugars in the wort have been fermented.

This can be prevented with an open fermentation for the first 3-5 days, which provides enough time for simple sugars to be consumed and oxygen ingress to happen, spurring the yeast to create the enzymes necessary for high attenuation. after which the fermenter can be sealed and allowed to finish as normal.

Offline denny

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Re: Cellar Science SAISON: Origin and Suggested Ferm Schedule?
« Reply #14 on: July 09, 2024, 10:29:43 am »
Regardless of Saison strain, I'd love to hear what temp/s you guys ferment your Saisons at. I'm assuming this is a Belgian strain, vs. French.

Drew has spoken about this at length.  He generally pitches in the mid 60s and lets it rise
I think he also states that the Belgian Saison yeast is pressure sensitive and it can be a good practice to open ferment.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Unless new information has come to light, this is a frustrating myth that needs to be dispelled. Saison yeast doesnt care about pressure, if it did we wouldnt be able to bottle condition with it. many diastatic yeasts only produce the enzymes necessary for high attenuation in the presence of oxygen and the absence of simple sugars. Naturally a  pressurized fermentation will create the environment that will prevent oxygen ingress and seemingly cause a stuck or slow fermentation after the simple sugars in the wort have been fermented.

This can be prevented with an open fermentation for the first 3-5 days, which provides enough time for simple sugars to be consumed and oxygen ingress to happen, spurring the yeast to create the enzymes necessary for high attenuation. after which the fermenter can be sealed and allowed to finish as normal.

Not all saison yeast, but pressure definitely seems to affect the Dupont strain.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

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