[nvshooter2276]

I have two Hawaiin Punch jugs pretty full of unhopped LME. One is 8.9 pounds (4037 grams) of Pale Ale syrup; the other is 7.825 pounds (3549 grams) of Amber syrup. I pulled the number of two percent of the syrup mass for bittering out of the air; there was very little if any deep thinking about how I arrived at two percent. Flavoring hops will be 1% of the syrup mass. Aroma hops will be 0.25% of the syrup mass.

For the Pale Ale I calculated 60.6 grams of a high AA hop like Centennial (10.9%) or Simcoe (13.5%) for bittering. To that charge I would also add 10.1 grams of Cascade (6.1%) to boost the power of the flavoring hops. The flavoring hops will be Cascade (6.1% AA) at 1% of the syrup mass: 40.3 grams. Aroma hops will be 10.1 grams of Tettnang (3.1 grams). Total is 121.1 grams of hops, which is 4.27 ounces.

I read a review today about a beer recipe kit that had seven ounces of hops in it. The reviewer said that for that much weight in hops, the final product was not very hoppy. My 4.27 ounces is just 61% of the recipe's 7 ounces. Will my beer be too hoppy? Or not hoppy enough?

Not going to provide the masses for the Amber. We can all figger-out 2%, 1% and 0.25% of 3549 grams if we so desire.

[Drewch]

To answer the question in your subject line: Yes.

For the question in the body of your post, I don't think you've given enough information. 

What's your batch size?  What's your boil schedule?  If you know that, you can determine your calculated IBUs from the hop additions. But you'll have to compare that to the calculated IBUs for other recipes you've made on your setup since the calculated IBUs can vary significantly from the actual IBUs.

[denny]

Too bitter or hoppy for what? Those are subjective measures, so it's like asking "how long is a piece of string?"

[dmtaylor]

Too bitter or hoppy for what? Those are subjective measures, so it's like asking "how long is a piece of string?"

+1 million.  "Too hoppy" is entirely subjective.

Assuming a 5-gallon batch, I calculate the IBUs for your pale ale to be around 84-ish if you bitter with Centennial, or hit the ceiling of ~90 IBUs if you use Simcoe.  Either way, that is quite bitter, but will balance the malt which would be strong in 5 gallons.  If doing 6 gallons or more, the IBUs will come down proportionally.  In any case, it will be on the bitter end of the style, more like an old-school American IPA.

Same hops in same percentages using less malt will result in hitting the ceiling of about 90 IBUs no matter what.  I keep saying "ceiling" because there is only so much isomerized alpha acid that can physically stay dissolved in the beer after the boil and fermentation -- you can end up with 100-something IBUs in the wort, but the yeast will pull a lot of this out during fermentation so you'll pretty much never exceed 90 IBUs.

[redrocker652002]

Too bitter or hoppy for what? Those are subjective measures, so it's like asking "how long is a piece of string?"

I was thinking the same thing, depends on taste and what you like.  I have used a few bittering hops in IPA and APA's but never more than maybe 1/2 oz or so for a 5 gallon batch a 60 mins boil.  Looking back at some of my recipes, I did use a full ounce of Cascade and it came out almost to where I thought it was too bitter.  But, it has aged a few weeks and seems to have calmed down a bit.  I agree with Denny though, the question was subjective to what you like and what you feel is right for you. 

[nvshooter2276]

Assuming a 5-gallon batch...

I'll be fermenting seven gallons. I have the spigot positioned such that one gallon of beer will be sacrificed because I expect the bottom gallon to have thick layer of dead yeast because so many pounds of LME is being fermented. I sorta remember reading in these pages that yeast cells procreate like rats once they're swimming around in the deliciousness of all that sugar. I want to drain the fermentation vessel with no concerns about dead yeast getting into the bottling bucket. A clear beer is my intermediate goal. Another intermediate goal is to prime correctly such that none of my 500cc PET bottles splits or has its top blown off.

I think if I have six gallons to prime (4.8 ounces of corn sugar), I could protect my bottles by priming for 5.75 gallons (4.6 ounces of corn sugar). Doubtful I'd go down to 5.50 gallons (4.4 ounces). I like a beer with a creamy head and small bubbles. I believe a lessening of the priming sugar will give to me those small bubbles.

My final goal is to produce something similar to a Nierra Sevada Pale Ale or to a Founders All Day IPA. Both are good beers.  I like the 15-can packages of the Founders; my Walmart sells the box at a little over a buck per can. Hard to turn that down...

[dmtaylor]

Sounds like a good plan for your carbonation.

With 7 gallons instead of 5 gallons, your IBUs will be closer to about 60 if you use Centennial for bittering, or 72 IBUs if you use Simcoe.  This is still quite bitter, and more bitter than your goal if you like Sierra Nevada and Founders All Day IPA, but closer.  If you reduce the bittering hops by 25-35%, you’ll get the bittering just about perfect.

[neuse]

Sounds like a good plan for your carbonation.

With 7 gallons instead of 5 gallons, your IBUs will be closer to about 60 if you use Centennial for bittering, or 72 IBUs if you use Simcoe.  This is still quite bitter, and more bitter than your goal if you like Sierra Nevada and Founders All Day IPA, but closer.  If you reduce the bittering hops by 25-35%, you’ll get the bittering just about perfect.

I see you key on IBUs as the driver of the perception of bitterness. I generally key on BU:GU (bitterness units:gravity units) as far as perception of bitterness. Using the BU:GU, the volume doesn't make any difference. Could you elaborate on your thinking - do you use BU:GU at all?

[denny]

Sounds like a good plan for your carbonation.

With 7 gallons instead of 5 gallons, your IBUs will be closer to about 60 if you use Centennial for bittering, or 72 IBUs if you use Simcoe.  This is still quite bitter, and more bitter than your goal if you like Sierra Nevada and Founders All Day IPA, but closer.  If you reduce the bittering hops by 25-35%, you’ll get the bittering just about perfect.

I see you key on IBUs as the driver of the perception of bitterness. I generally key on BU:GU (bitterness units:gravity units) as far as perception of bitterness. Using the BU:GU, the volume doesn't make any difference. Could you elaborate on your thinking - do you use BU:GU at all?

I use it as kind of a guideline, but numbers are much more important. 2:1 and 200:100 are the same ratio but give far different results

[dmtaylor]

Sounds like a good plan for your carbonation.

With 7 gallons instead of 5 gallons, your IBUs will be closer to about 60 if you use Centennial for bittering, or 72 IBUs if you use Simcoe.  This is still quite bitter, and more bitter than your goal if you like Sierra Nevada and Founders All Day IPA, but closer.  If you reduce the bittering hops by 25-35%, you’ll get the bittering just about perfect.

I see you key on IBUs as the driver of the perception of bitterness. I generally key on BU:GU (bitterness units:gravity units) as far as perception of bitterness. Using the BU:GU, the volume doesn't make any difference. Could you elaborate on your thinking - do you use BU:GU at all?

Absolutely, I take BU:GU into account.  The OP's recipe will have a BU:GU greater than 1.0, so it's quite bitter.

[dmtaylor]

I use it as kind of a guideline, but numbers are much more important. 2:1 and 200:100 are the same ratio but give far different results

I use this argument with sulfate and chloride.  Are you talking about BU:GU, or getting confused with salt additions??

[denny]

I use it as kind of a guideline, but numbers are much more important. 2:1 and 200:100 are the same ratio but give far different results

I use this argument with sulfate and chloride.  Are you talking about BU:GU, or getting confused with salt additions??

Confused. Haven't finished the 2nd cup of coffee!

[ynotbrusum]

Indeed - I have my chloride and sulfate amounts generally down in memory by grams (that's dangerous, I know!) for specific beer styles and my RO and I only consult with the spreadsheet when I see a high amount that seems out of range to me (e.g., the "Burtonization" levels that sometimes show up in others' British style recipes....)  Thankfully, I tend toward a light hand in both water salts and bittering hop additions, so I stay out of trouble, usually.

[nvshooter2276]

Sounds like a good plan for your carbonation.

With 7 gallons instead of 5 gallons, your IBUs will be closer to about 60 if you use Centennial for bittering, or 72 IBUs if you use Simcoe.  This is still quite bitter, and more bitter than your goal if you like Sierra Nevada and Founders All Day IPA, but closer.  If you reduce the bittering hops by 25-35%, you’ll get the bittering just about perfect.

Been thinking about 1.5% of the LME's mass to bitter, instead of 2%. Will look at what other bittering hops I have on-hand and find one a little more gentle than Centennial. Simcoe is out, based upon the information you have so graciously provided. I have Magnum (12.1%), Amarillo (9.6%) and Chinook (11.2%). The Amarillo is lookin' kinda good when compared to the Centennial...

1.5% of 4037 grams is 60.5 grams of Amarillo. About how high will my IBU be with using that much? Flavoring and aroma will remain unchanged.

[Drewch]

Sounds like a good plan for your carbonation.

With 7 gallons instead of 5 gallons, your IBUs will be closer to about 60 if you use Centennial for bittering, or 72 IBUs if you use Simcoe.  This is still quite bitter, and more bitter than your goal if you like Sierra Nevada and Founders All Day IPA, but closer.  If you reduce the bittering hops by 25-35%, you’ll get the bittering just about perfect.

Been thinking about 1.5% of the LME's mass to bitter, instead of 2%. Will look at what other bittering hops I have on-hand and find one a little more gentle than Centennial. Simcoe is out, based upon the information you have so graciously provided. I have Magnum (12.1%), Amarillo (9.6%) and Chinook (11.2%). The Amarillo is lookin' kinda good when compared to the Centennial...

1.5% of 4037 grams is 60.5 grams of Amarillo. About how high will my IBU be with using that much? Flavoring and aroma will remain unchanged.

If you want a formula based on the ratio of masses, I would find a way to include the hops AA %. Something like

MassHops = k × MassExtract × (1 - AA%)

So that your hops scale as the AA% increases. Pick your value for k to get your desired bitterness. For a notional 10% AA bittering hop, to get to your 1.5%, you'd get k thusly:

0.015 = k × (1 - 0.10)
0.015 = 0.90 × k
k = 0.015 ÷ 0.90 = 1/60 ≈ 0.0167

Or the mass of your hops = (1-AA%) × mass of extract ÷ 60.