[adama]

so...I want to attempt my first imperial IPA. The thing is, I don't care for the overly sweet character some beers of this style have. Want to go for a low temp mash to aid in attenuation, but dont want to end up with a watery beer. My thought was to go ahead with the low temp mash and just add a bit of carapils to throw a bit more dextrins into the mix. so basically the idea is to go with a pale malt base with a bit of crystal for color/flavor, and carapils to make up for lost body. How does this sound? Any input would be much appreciated! Thank you

[denny]

IMO, an IIPA needs to have some sugar in it to dry it out.  To me, that's what differentiates it from an AM. BW.

[adama]

would the sugar not also lighten the body as well though?

[denny]

would the sugar not also lighten the body as well though?

Yeah, as it should.  I wouldn't use the carapils at all.  Keep in mind that an all grain beer at that OG is gonna be pretty thick.

[tschmidlin]

Also, if you are trying to minimize the sweet character then I would minimize the crystal too.

[adama]

what if i cut out the crystal all together and go with an all pale malt bill with the addition of some amber beet syrup?

[tschmidlin]

I wouldn't eliminate it entirely, you get flavors from the crystal besides just sweetness.  I keep the crystal malts to about 5% of the grist, and use about 7% sugar for my IIPA.

[denny]

I wouldn't eliminate it entirely, you get flavors from the crystal besides just sweetness.  I keep the crystal malts to about 5% of the grist, and use about 7% sugar for my IIPA.

I'm darn close to those amounts, too.

[adama]

thanks for the info guys, I'll give it a try

[skyler]

I disagree about the need for sugar. I like 98-100% domestic 2-row and 0-2% of whatever specialty malt you like (I like British 65L crystal). I mash at 148-149 for 60 min with no mashout, then I boil for 90 min to get it at the color I like, and I use a huge amount of WLP001 or Pacman or some other very dry American yeast. Always gets it to the 1.010-1.014 range where I like them.

[majorvices]

Throwing my hat in with Denny et al. Sugar is essential for a proper IIPA. I use about 10% in mine and about 5% crystal. You want to dry the beer out and thin the body out with the sugar but you need a small amount of crystal sweetness to balance the hops. I don't enjoy these thick, caramelly IIPAs. A IIPA should be so good that once you drink one you immediately want another.

[ccarlson]

I disagree about the need for sugar. I like 98-100% domestic 2-row and 0-2% of whatever specialty malt you like (I like British 65L crystal). I mash at 148-149 for 60 min with no mashout, then I boil for 90 min to get it at the color I like, and I use a huge amount of WLP001 or Pacman or some other very dry American yeast. Always gets it to the 1.010-1.014 range where I like them.

I agree. With a long mash and at the proper temperature, you don't have to use sugar.

[denny]

I disagree about the need for sugar. I like 98-100% domestic 2-row and 0-2% of whatever specialty malt you like (I like British 65L crystal). I mash at 148-149 for 60 min with no mashout, then I boil for 90 min to get it at the color I like, and I use a huge amount of WLP001 or Pacman or some other very dry American yeast. Always gets it to the 1.010-1.014 range where I like them.

I agree. With a long mash and at the proper temperature, you don't have to use sugar.

No, you don't have to.  But my experience is that it makes a better (and more to style, if you care about that) beer.  without the sugar, my IIPAs end up more like Am. BW.

[ccarlson]

I disagree about the need for sugar. I like 98-100% domestic 2-row and 0-2% of whatever specialty malt you like (I like British 65L crystal). I mash at 148-149 for 60 min with no mashout, then I boil for 90 min to get it at the color I like, and I use a huge amount of WLP001 or Pacman or some other very dry American yeast. Always gets it to the 1.010-1.014 range where I like them.

I agree. With a long mash and at the proper temperature, you don't have to use sugar.

No, you don't have to.  But my experience is that it makes a better (and more to style, if you care about that) beer.  without the sugar, my IIPAs end up more like Am. BW.

I hear you and I've had some turn out that way, but try mashing long and low sometime and I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. I'm not a BW fan and this procedure has worked well for me.

Nothing wrong with using sugar, I just enjoy the challenge of doing it without.

[denny]

I hear you and I've had some turn out that way, but try mashing long and low sometime and I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. I'm not a BW fan and this procedure has worked well for me.

Nothing wrong with using sugar, I just enjoy the challenge of doing it without.

I've done a 2 hour mash at 147 and I didn't think the results were as good as when I used sugar.  The long low mash lessened the body somewhat, but it still tasted too thick (yeah, I know...how can taste be thick?).