Author Topic: Oxygen and liquor  (Read 1055 times)

Offline majorvices

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Oxygen and liquor
« on: August 04, 2013, 05:59:00 PM »
Can someone explain to me why if you open a beer or growler it is good for a day but a bottle of whiskey is good for days or weeks, even months ( who am I kidding, never had one last much longer that a month).? Just wondering.
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Offline klickitat jim

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Re: Oxygen and liquor
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2013, 06:44:57 PM »
Or wine. ..

Lacking common denominator is CO2. Not that it's the reason or that I could possibly know the reason. Just a WAG

Offline thebigbaker

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Re: Oxygen and liquor
« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2013, 06:49:21 PM »
Or wine. ..

Lacking common denominator is CO2. Not that it's the reason or that I could possibly know the reason. Just a WAG

That's what I was thinking too Jim, lack of CO2.  Not sure if it's the main reason, but it has to be a factor, right?
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Offline erockrph

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Re: Oxygen and liquor
« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2013, 06:52:24 PM »
Wine may stale differently than beer, but I think it still stales.

My assumption has always been that whatever staling compounds exist in beer don't survive the distilling process.
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Offline majorvices

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Re: Oxygen and liquor
« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2013, 03:12:16 AM »
Wine definitely goes bad - not quite as fast as beer but oxygen definitely destroys it.
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Offline kylekohlmorgen

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Re: Oxygen and liquor
« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2013, 04:34:33 AM »
Whiskey (and other distilled spirits) aren't really food products anymore - they are just ethanol and water with trace amounts of flavor, aroma, and color compounds from the barrel (or from spicing).

Beer/wine can 'go bad' from a few sources that don't really affect spirits:

Oxidation of organic compounds in beer/wine causes staling. Since spirits lack carbohydrates and proteins, there isn't anything to oxidize. Actually, I believe the same is true for mead (per Michael Fairbrother in an NHC talk this year, I don't have much experience with meadmaking, just meaddrinking).

Infection is not an issue with distilled spirits because of its high alcohol content and low nutrient content.

I'm not sure if distilled spirits are susceptible to lightstrike. I'll have to look this one up.

No yeast carries over in the still runoff, so autolysis won't affect spirits.

Did I forget any other ways to ruin beer?
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Offline hopfenundmalz

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Re: Oxygen and liquor
« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2013, 05:56:45 AM »
Whiskey (and other distilled spirits) aren't really food products anymore - they are just ethanol and water with trace amounts of flavor, aroma, and color compounds from the barrel (or from spicing).

Beer/wine can 'go bad' from a few sources that don't really affect spirits:

Oxidation of organic compounds in beer/wine causes staling. Since spirits lack carbohydrates and proteins, there isn't anything to oxidize. Actually, I believe the same is true for mead (per Michael Fairbrother in an NHC talk this year, I don't have much experience with meadmaking, just meaddrinking).

Infection is not an issue with distilled spirits because of its high alcohol content and low nutrient content.

I'm not sure if distilled spirits are susceptible to lightstrike. I'll have to look this one up.

No yeast carries over in the still runoff, so autolysis won't affect spirits.

Did I forget any other ways to ruin beer?

No iso-AA = no skunk.
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Re: Oxygen and liquor
« Reply #7 on: August 05, 2013, 06:01:42 AM »
Whiskey (and other distilled spirits) aren't really food products anymore - they are just ethanol and water with trace amounts of flavor, aroma, and color compounds from the barrel (or from spicing).

Beer/wine can 'go bad' from a few sources that don't really affect spirits:

Oxidation of organic compounds in beer/wine causes staling. Since spirits lack carbohydrates and proteins, there isn't anything to oxidize. Actually, I believe the same is true for mead (per Michael Fairbrother in an NHC talk this year, I don't have much experience with meadmaking, just meaddrinking).

Infection is not an issue with distilled spirits because of its high alcohol content and low nutrient content.

I'm not sure if distilled spirits are susceptible to lightstrike. I'll have to look this one up.

No yeast carries over in the still runoff, so autolysis won't affect spirits.

Did I forget any other ways to ruin beer?
I think these are the main reasons. There are organic compounds in many liqueurs though. Perhaps the high ABV inhibits oxidation too. Think Irish Cream - lots of protein, fat, and sugar there.
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Re: Oxygen and liquor
« Reply #8 on: August 05, 2013, 06:02:34 AM »
Also, Sam Adams Utopias can stay open for weeks or more with no staling.
Jimmy K

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Offline majorvices

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Re: Oxygen and liquor
« Reply #9 on: August 05, 2013, 06:04:48 AM »
Good run down, Kyle. FYI I have definitely tasted oxidized mead. A guy close to me dabbles in wine making and mead making and he makes some truly horrible stuff. All wet cardboard and sherry.
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Re: Oxygen and liquor
« Reply #10 on: August 05, 2013, 08:01:38 AM »
I think ABV has something to do with it. I had a bottle of the northcoast old stock reserve that took nearly a week to finish and it was just as good on day 5 as day 1. damn that was tasty. perhaps also tannins? anti-oxidants? red wine lasts longer than white (red = anti-oxidants). Oak aged beers last longer than non-oak aged? I don't know if that is true. just a thought. Do dark beers last longer? I know a kolsch can start tasting a little iffy if you don't finish the glass within an hour or so. whereas a nice dry stout can sit and breath for a while and still be quaffable.
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Offline 1vertical

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Re: Oxygen and liquor
« Reply #11 on: August 05, 2013, 10:08:05 PM »
When I imbibe too much Liquor, I borrow the wife's oxygen, and
my head stops hurting fast....just sayin!  I think oxygen
and liquor are a good combination.   :P
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Offline erockrph

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Re: Oxygen and liquor
« Reply #12 on: August 05, 2013, 11:23:33 PM »
When I imbibe too much Liquor, I borrow the wife's oxygen, and
my head stops hurting fast....just sayin!  I think oxygen
and liquor are a good combination.   :P

Anyone else here looking at their O2 setup and getting ideas? I knew i bought the inline HEPA filter for a reason...
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Offline punatic

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Re: Oxygen and liquor
« Reply #13 on: August 06, 2013, 06:38:19 AM »
When I imbibe too much Liquor, I borrow the wife's oxygen, and
my head stops hurting fast....just sayin!  I think oxygen
and liquor are a good combination.   :P

Anyone else here looking at their O2 setup and getting ideas? I knew i bought the inline HEPA filter for a reason...

I'm looking at my beer and thinking, 'That could be whiskey!'  I mean, I'd hate to see it get oxidized, and all like that...
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Offline reverseapachemaster

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Re: Oxygen and liquor
« Reply #14 on: August 06, 2013, 06:51:17 AM »
Whiskey (and other distilled spirits) aren't really food products anymore - they are just ethanol and water with trace amounts of flavor, aroma, and color compounds from the barrel (or from spicing).

Beer/wine can 'go bad' from a few sources that don't really affect spirits:

Oxidation of organic compounds in beer/wine causes staling. Since spirits lack carbohydrates and proteins, there isn't anything to oxidize. Actually, I believe the same is true for mead (per Michael Fairbrother in an NHC talk this year, I don't have much experience with meadmaking, just meaddrinking).

Infection is not an issue with distilled spirits because of its high alcohol content and low nutrient content.

I'm not sure if distilled spirits are susceptible to lightstrike. I'll have to look this one up.

No yeast carries over in the still runoff, so autolysis won't affect spirits.

Did I forget any other ways to ruin beer?
I think these are the main reasons. There are organic compounds in many liqueurs though. Perhaps the high ABV inhibits oxidation too. Think Irish Cream - lots of protein, fat, and sugar there.

But also preservatives. Those liqueurs will go bad in time, especially if they are not kept refrigerated.
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