[majorvices]

Believe it or not I have never made any scottish ales before but I have a request to do a wee heavy so I'm starting here to grow the yeast. I realize the recipe relies on heavy kettle caramelization and is simply UK 2 row and a smidge of RB. But the part I'm having issue with is the concentration of the "first running" via skotrat recipe. For me it would simply be easier to boil the main volume for as long as it takes. How long are we talking here? 4 hours? Or should I just do the concentrated boil method? Mind you I'm doing this today so I have to choose SOON.

[brewin2me]

I made this recipe in early Feb and did the first runnings technique. It is actually quicker to do it this way than the other, because you are boiling the first runnings separate yet at the same time as the main boil. Hope that helps. Either way works. Good luck! And the beer is awesome!

[majorvices]

Thanks! It's not really the time that is the issue so much as I have one BK and didn't want the main volume sitting around all afternoon. But I may rig something up.

[morticaixavier]

Are you doing a full scale batch? or just a 12 gallon? when I do 5-12 gallons I do the preboil on the stove but if you are doing a full batch on your commercial system use your 12 gallon setup on the side to do the first runnings.

but yeah, you can get a lot of good Maillard reactions out of a 4 hour boil. you may be forced to unless you have a very shallow wide kettle to get the kind of fast evaporation your after.

So I did first 1 gallon down to around 1-1.5 pints. That's 1/7th of the full volume boiled down to 1/7ish it's original volume.

[brewin2me]

When i did mine, it was a 10 gallon batch i split with another club member. We took 3 gallons and boiled it down to a quart.

[denny]

Believe it or not I have never made any scottish ales before but I have a request to do a wee heavy so I'm starting here to grow the yeast. I realize the recipe relies on heavy kettle caramelization and is simply UK 2 row and a smidge of RB. But the part I'm having issue with is the concentration of the "first running" via skotrat recipe. For me it would simply be easier to boil the main volume for as long as it takes. How long are we talking here? 4 hours? Or should I just do the concentrated boil method? Mind you I'm doing this today so I have to choose SOON.

Keith, I've tried what you propose and it just isn't the same.  Of course, the beer won't suck, but you'll be really missing out on flavor.  That said, I know it's a question of practicality for you.  The other thing I've learned is that using Golden Promise makes the beer 1000% better.  Again, it won't suck with other malts, but I go out of my way to use GP when I make this these days.

[vista]

SHe's gone from suck to blow.

When you do second runnings, I'm assuming if you boil a gallon to a quart, you make up the other three quarts in second runnings? I've also always wanted to do this but there was always one other beer I'd want to brew more...whenever I brew.

[jeffy]

I take the first runnings and start the boil on it right away.  By the time the main mash, sparge and boil are about finished, it's time to add the thick syrup back into the kettle. 
Watch it as if you're scared.

[majorvices]

OK, you guys convinced me. I'll do the first runnings. I am only doing a 12 gallon batch. Problem with 2nd kettle for boiling down is solved. Thanks for the tips.

Oh, I'm using TF MO. Don't have no stinkin' GP.

[denny]

OK, you guys convinced me. I'll do the first runnings. I am only doing a 12 gallon batch. Problem with 2nd kettle for boiling down is solved. Thanks for the tips.

Oh, I'm using TF MO. Don't have no stinkin' GP.

I've done it without GP a number of times.  It's still good, just not AS good.

[majorvices]

It'll be good enough for Alabama.

[Jimmy K]

I don't think you'll get the same flavors from a long boil as you would from boiling wort into syrup. But it's only a gallon or two - you can do that on a stove top with a pasta pot.

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[mabrungard]

Caramelization is dependent upon the temperature of the sugars reaching their conversion temperature. According to Wikipedia, maltose requires over 350F to caramelize.   During a typical boil, obviously the temperature of the system is pretty much at the boiling point temperature.  However with a more vigorous boil, there could be teeny points within each of those steam bubbles that might reach a temperature well beyond the boiling point.  But that is just for a moment and its effect has to be minor.

However as wort is concentrated, the specific heat value goes down and the boiling point temperature goes up.   That 350F temperature criterion will come within reach with concentration.  It quickly becomes possible to caramelize an entire mass of a sugar solution instead of a few molecules per steam bubble when you concentrate the wort.   

[majorvices]

I don't think you'll get the same flavors from a long boil as you would from boiling wort into syrup. But it's only a gallon or two - you can do that on a stove top with a pasta pot.

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yeah. at home i could. wasn't at home, hence the problem. did manage to dig out another burner.

[Jimmy K]

I suppose as a one pot alternative, you could pull off a gallon of wort early in the mash and boil like crazy in the kettle while the mash finishes. This is figuring that with well modified malt most conversion is done pretty quickly, so you'd be safe pulling a gallon after 30 minutes.