[tommymorris]

I'll buy a six pack of Celebration today, then go back to the pub and order another so that I'm better informed.  Sounds like I got the wrong beer.

Let us know what you think. Regarding your amber comment: I find there are two types of American IPA's those with more caramel than I care for and those with less caramel, which is what I prefer.

There are a lot of them in the too much caramel category in my opinion.

[HoosierBrew]

I'll buy a six pack of Celebration today, then go back to the pub and order another so that I'm better informed.  Sounds like I got the wrong beer.

Let us know what you think. Regarding your amber comment: I find there are two types of American IPA's those with more caramel than I care for and those with less caramel, which is what I prefer.

There are a lot of them in the too much caramel category in my opinion.

I totally agree.  I limit crystal to 5% in my IPAs for that reason. If I'm making an American Amber, I'll come up a bit.

[denny]

FWIW, Celebration is 9-10% C55-60.

[erockrph]

FWIW, Celebration is 9-10% C55-60.

This blows my mind every time I hear it because there are so many syrupy sweet commercial IPA's out there. It makes me wonder what everyone else is doing wrong when SN makes a killer IPA with that much crystal malt.

[mabrungard]

Whoa! 10% crystal is not a big deal. On top of that, the fermentability of the rest of the wort is going to have a huge effect on the final character of the beer.  I recall that SN does mash at very modest temperatures which promotes the fermentability of the wort and the resulting dryness of the beer.  Having a bit of crystal is probably not that big a deal.

[natebriscoe]

Whoa! 10% crystal is not a big deal. On top of that, the fermentability of the rest of the wort is going to have a huge effect on the final character of the beer.  I recall that SN does mash at very modest temperatures which promotes the fermentability of the wort and the resulting dryness of the beer.  Having a bit of crystal is probably not that big a deal.

the byo recipe from a few months back has them mashing 156 or 157. Which I have used and it does work.

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[hopfenundmalz]

Whoa! 10% crystal is not a big deal. On top of that, the fermentability of the rest of the wort is going to have a huge effect on the final character of the beer.  I recall that SN does mash at very modest temperatures which promotes the fermentability of the wort and the resulting dryness of the beer.  Having a bit of crystal is probably not that big a deal.

the byo recipe from a few months back has them mashing 156 or 157. Which I have used and it does work.

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The base malt is NA 2 row, which is high in a Diastatic power.

[denny]

the byo recipe from a few months back has them mashing 156 or 157. Which I have used and it does work.

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I know for a fact that they mash at 158.

[denny]

Whoa! 10% crystal is not a big deal. On top of that, the fermentability of the rest of the wort is going to have a huge effect on the final character of the beer.  I recall that SN does mash at very modest temperatures which promotes the fermentability of the wort and the resulting dryness of the beer.  Having a bit of crystal is probably not that big a deal.

Martin, I agree about the crystal.  It's not what you use as much as how you use it.  SN mashes Celebration at 158 with 10% crystal and still manages to make a very well balanced IPA with a nice dry finish.

[natebriscoe]

the byo recipe from a few months back has them mashing 156 or 157. Which I have used and it does work.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

I know for a fact that they mash at 158.

well 156 comes out with the right fg on my system. Denny you seem to have some insight on SN celebration, any chance they are using pale ale malt instead of plain 2 row?

[ajk]

Syrupy sweet? That seems to me like the balance of the beer was off to start meaning there were not enough IBUs to properly balance the beer. While the hop aroma and flavor will fade kind of quick, the bitterness balance should be more intact, a little less but not appreciably.

Good call. It was a little sweet to begin with.

Oxidation can also create a honey-like note that seems sweet. Is the color any darker than it was a few months ago?

[denny]

well 156 comes out with the right fg on my system. Denny you seem to have some insight on SN celebration, any chance they are using pale ale malt instead of plain 2 row?

Nope, definitely not.  90% pale, 10% C55-60, mash at 158, pitch 1056, ferment at 68.  That's from 2 different sources at SN who know!

[erockrph]

Whoa! 10% crystal is not a big deal. On top of that, the fermentability of the rest of the wort is going to have a huge effect on the final character of the beer.  I recall that SN does mash at very modest temperatures which promotes the fermentability of the wort and the resulting dryness of the beer.  Having a bit of crystal is probably not that big a deal.

Martin, I agree about the crystal.  It's not what you use as much as how you use it.  SN mashes Celebration at 158 with 10% crystal and still manages to make a very well balanced IPA with a nice dry finish.

I guess what gets me is that there are so many sweet IPA's out there. My first two thoughts are that either they used too much Crystal and/or mashed too high. It just makes me wonder what the hell they are doing if you can make a perfectly good IPA mashing at 158 using 10% Crystal malt.

I'm starting to come back around on the Crystal a bit. I've been brewing more English beers as of late, and my bitters & ESB's are perfectly fine with 10-12% Crystal malt, even when using a less attenuative yeast. They are certainly richer and fuller, but not sweet/underattenuated at all. I may have to start playing around with it in my IPA's again.

[HoosierBrew]

I've usually mashed my Celebration type beers ~ 154F. And I don't doubt that SN mashes that high (but am surprised), so I have to assume that they use a ton of gypsum to achieve that balanced finish, like maybe ~ the 300ppm level of sulfate in Bru'nWater's Pale Ale profile. I've only used the higher levels in the last couple of years and the results are undeniable in a West Coast-type beer.

[blatz]

erockph - maybe yeast?  i find one of our locals, Jai Alai IPA a little sweet as well, but they use WL002 from what i've been told, which maybe explains it.