Author Topic: Water Mods for Black IPA (Cascadian Dark Ale, according to Deschutes)  (Read 1856 times)

Offline skyler

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Every LHBS in Portland is out of Sinamar, so I'm using Carafa II Spezial for my Black IPA. I don't know what to do with the water. My thinking is to treat it like a porter in the mash tun and then treat it like an IPA in the kettle. So I'm planning to add a tablespoon of chalk to the mash and then 2 teaspoons of gypsum to the kettle. Does this sound right to everyone? Also, should I drop the corn sugar? Recipe below.

6 gal (because the hops will absorb so much wort, and I want 5.5 gal in primary)

10 lbs GW 2-row
1.5 lbs Carafa II Spezial
1 lb Munich 10L
1 lb Crystal 60L
1 lb Dextrose

oz
0.5    Summit    pellet 18.5% AA 60 min
1.0    Cascade    leaf   5.7% AA 20 min
1.0    Cascade    leaf    5.7% AA 10 min
1.0    Simcoe    leaf    12.7% AA 10 min
1.0    Summit    pellet 18.5% AA 5 min
1.0    Simcoe    leaf    12.7% AA 5 min
0.5    Cascade    leaf    5.5% AA 0 min
2.0    Simcoe    leaf    12.7% AA 0 min
0.5    Summit    pellet 18.5% 0 min
1.0    Summit    pellet 18.5% Dry Hop
1.0    Simcoe    pellet 12.2% Keg Hop

Pacman Yeast

Mash at 150 for 75 min

~1.074 - ~1.013, SRM ~39, IBU ~72, ABV ~8%
« Last Edit: April 06, 2010, 01:15:11 PM by skyler »

Offline denny

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Re: Water Mods for Black IPA (Cascadian Dark Ale, according to Deschutes)
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2010, 08:27:54 AM »
Without knowing what your water looks like, it sounds like a good guess.
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Offline babalu87

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Re: Water Mods for Black IPA (Cascadian Dark Ale, according to Deschutes)
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2010, 08:40:29 AM »
I make one frequently (with some Brown Malt)
Used my soft well water and it was awesome, I dicked around with the water and its not as good this time........... go figure.

I THINK Burton was the profile I went for, I'll post again after looking at the notes
Jeff

On draught:
IIPA, Stout, Hefeweizen, Hallertau Pale Ale, Bitter

Primary:
Hefeweizen,Berliner Weisse, Mead

Offline skyler

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Re: Water Mods for Black IPA (Cascadian Dark Ale, according to Deschutes)
« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2010, 11:42:35 AM »
Without knowing what your water looks like, it sounds like a good guess.

I'm brewing this in Portland, so the water is low in just about everything. I don't have the specs on me right now, but it isn't all that different from the Pilsen specs on BeerAlchemy and BeerSmith.

Offline lagerman

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Re: Water Mods for Black IPA (Cascadian Dark Ale, according to Deschutes)
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2010, 02:19:04 PM »
Don't worry about being out of the Sinamar, Carafa does as well or better.  The trick is to cold sparge the black malt.  Many breweries are adding it directly to the mash tun after they start sparging.  Drop your sparge temperature to 155 to 165, the lower being better. 

On water treatments, think of this as an IPA, if you treat your IPA, treat this beer also.  Good luck

Offline skyler

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Re: Water Mods for Black IPA (Cascadian Dark Ale, according to Deschutes)
« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2010, 02:53:51 PM »
Don't worry about being out of the Sinamar, Carafa does as well or better.  The trick is to cold sparge the black malt.  Many breweries are adding it directly to the mash tun after they start sparging.  Drop your sparge temperature to 155 to 165, the lower being better. 

On water treatments, think of this as an IPA, if you treat your IPA, treat this beer also.  Good luck

So you're saying I should not add the carafa until I have drained the first runnings? And then I should sparge colder than usual (I batch sparge). Would this amount of carafa still do it?

Offline skyler

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I followed the "add carafa with sparge water" method, and I treated my water as an IPA and it worked great - an outstanding beer and the best black IPA I've had (well, Hopworks Secession Black is also damn good).

Thanks for the help.

Offline richardt

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In re "cold sparging the black malt," is this approach recommended to reduce the astringency (much like cold water percolation of coffee)?

Why not just steep the black malt separately (i.e., with nylon mesh bags) with what ever temps you prefer and continue the sparging at more ideal temps (i.e., 168 F) to facilitate lautering?  Just add the separately-steeped black malt directly to the mash tun part way through the sparging process if you want to try and filter out all the small particles or, if you are using a very fine nylon mesh bag, then dump straight into the kettle.

I haven't done this process, but I'd appreciate any and all comments.

Offline denny

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Actually, you can cold steep the dark malts for an even smoother flavor.  It works really well.  Here's George Fix's take on it..

George Fix on Cold Steeping

Question to Dr. Fix:

>On the Brews & Views discussion board a couple months ago, someone mentioned a talk you gave regarding cold steeping of malts like Munich. I would very much appreciate it if you would elaborate on this technique. How do you do it, what does it do for the brew, what malts are good candidates for this technique.

Dr. Fix:

The talk was in the NCHF at Napa in October. Those folks on the left coast really know how to do a beer festival!  The cold steeping procedure was designed to maximize the extraction of  desirable melanoidins, and at the same time minimize the extraction of  undesirable ones. The former are simple compounds which yield a fine malt taste. The undesirable ones come from more complicated structures. Polymers with sulfur compounds tend to have malt/vegetable tones. Others yield   cloying tones, which to my palate have an under fermented character. The highest level melanoidins can even have burnt characteristics.  The cold steeping procedure was developed by Mary Ann Gruber of Briess. My  version goes as follows.

             (i) One gallon of water per 3-4 lbs. of grains to be steeped is brought to a boil and held there for 5 mins.
             (ii) The water is cooled down to ambient, and the cracked grains are added.
             (iii) This mixture is left for 12-16 hrs. at ambient temperatures,  and then added to the brew kettle for the last 15-20 mins. of the boil.

Mary Ann has had good results by adding the steeped grains directly to the  fermenter without boiling, however I have not tried that variation of the             procedure.

 The upside of cold steeping is that it works. The downside is that it is very inefficient both with respect to extract and color. In my setup I am using 2-3 times the malt that would normally be used. As a consequence I  have been using it for "adjunct malts" such as black and crystal. I also am very happy with the use of Munich malts with this process when they are used as secondary malts.
Life begins at 60.....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

The best, sharpest, funniest, weirdest and most knowledgable minds in home brewing contribute on the AHA forum. - Alewyfe